Anyone can add to the pages, which is why so much stuff is either not confirmed or incorrect. Not what I'd call a reliable source, really.

 

Well, i think such iconical things as virus and korg m1 - good hw synth to keep in collection. If you are edm/house producer. But if you are not, then guitars and basses will be better investment. IMO.

 

I love vinly, though some material i just prefer to hear on a cd.Cds sound vastly superior to cassettes.
Used cds are selling like crazy on ebay uk.Cassettes dont.

 

the destination is always the final product.
the eventual benefits of analog synths and analog mixing are not justifying the costs involved, the space it needs and the maintenance and fixing issues.
just not worth it apart for specialist situations or for diehard analog freaks that stick to analog as a matter of principle, again another "cult" like the Mac users or the fashion addicts.

seriously, i dont give a shit if they wanna waste 10K $ in hardware gear instead of producing in the box, not my songs and not my business.
all i could say is from what i observed they HAVE TO stick to analog as they're not engineering minded enough to use a complex Digital
setup, that's why they love so much Knobbing and hate Clicking.

but still .. music is math !

 

see ? you dont give a shit about the electronic side of a synth but still you want to produce Electronic Music.
you think you dont need to, as Knobbing here and there somehow will make a decent sound.
problem is, you're using a synth like a Toy and not like a proper musical instrument, which is why you guys hate Digital as with a soft synth you're expected to go deeper in the synthesis theory and all, as you lack the background you wont come up with much using Clicking and you end up hating it but you should accept yourself for what you are, dont hate the technology, hate your attitude.

 

it's simple.
study the Synthesis theory for subtractive synthesis, it's easy and linear.
once you're done proceed with Additive synthesis, FM, Wavetable, etc, everything will suddenly become clear and logic.

Knobbing is just the first stage, the one where you "play" with a machine, but later on it's just a matter of personal taste, how long does it take to create a sound from scratch will depend on you, if you're faster with Clicking or with Knobbing, but Knobbing will cost you a lot of space and money and hassles.

 

but you could, because ultimately it's just a matter of workflow and technology.
if you still mix analog + digital is because of your personal taste but you know very well you could work 100% in the box, nobody is forcing you to keep a whole room of analog racks to make what could be done easily on a laptop, it's a personal choice that you justify in many ways but it's only good for your ears, anyone else could see zero difference in the final product.

what you keep saying is that Digital has no way to beat analog both in sound design and in mixing, but you're aware this has been debated to death since 30 years.

are you really sure that Analog is the "secret sauce" in many top selling songs ?
because if you're right this should be a very important topic for anyone producing music, but i'm afraid you'll have a hard time backing up such a claim.

 

dont tell me.
i sold my Yama CS40 for the equivalent of 200 euro in the 90s
the buyer even complained it was too heavy ! believe it or not nobody wanted to buy those analogs, the CS40 had no MIDI and only CV/gate and a CV-to-Midi interface was priced more than the synth itself, so it was seen as a piece of shit.

 

Last edited: Mar 8, 2017

well, if we talk about top-end precision i will just tell you to use the best machines in the market, as long as your clients can afford the costs involved.

but here we were just talking about generic things, not top-end applications.
if analog is the best choice for your niche than stick to analog, i've nothing against it !

sorry if i may sound a bit pretentious something but hey this a forum and it's meant to be a place for discussion

 

They must have their own reasons to use all those analogs on stage, certainly a mix of factors, playing live means doing a Show and a good show must be also good looking, a laptop wont impress anyone but who am i to judge ?

In case they use the same setup in studio : same as above, probably they feel more comfortable or they convinved themselves those machines are the better choice for their job.

So, to each his own, but still ... it doesnt demonstrate that analog is by far the best choice for electronic music, both studio and stage/live.

It just shows that several successful testimonials love vintage analogs and modern synths.
but then again ... where's the truth ? if we look at where today is the true avantguard it's 100% on digital ... Reaktor, PureData, SuperCollider, MAX/MSP, Faust, etc .... you wont find much of analog in this realm, especially regarding FXs and automation.

Most of the artists you listed are using classic synth sounds, some others like Aphex Twin are more into noisy stuff but so what ? none of them couldnt play without analogs if they really wanted to, it's their personal choice and style, because when you say i play electronic music the crowd expect to see electronic instruments just as a guitarist is supposed to play a guitar and not a plugin on a laptop.

so while you may laugh at people using Omnisphere presets they're still good enough to end up everywhere in movies and commercials and nobody will complain they're made on Digital (wavetable in this case).

hans zimmer's setup must be the result of decades of accumulation of hardware, he's a synth freak and a great composer, he's millionaire and can afford to do these things, i dont think he's representative but he often talk about soft synths in interviews so ask yourself, why he must resort to Zebra or Diva instead of his monster analog modulars ?

his modular is probably just a hobby and just because he can ... i dont think he's a true sound designer, can't remember a Hans Zimmer super duper synth library apart for some synth-drum stuff in Omnisphere's Moog Tribute.

as a final note, why Kraftwerk play on stage with 4 laptops ? (and nobody complain about the Sound).

 

It's just a matter of workflow and technology.
if you still mix analog + digital is because of your personal taste but you know very well you could work 100% analogue, Nobody is forcing you to work in the box. it's a personal choice that you justify in many ways but it's only good for your ears, even though many difference in the final product.

What you keep saying is that Analogue has no way to beat digital both in sound design and in mixing, but you're aware this has been debated to death since 30 years.

are you really sure that digital is the "secret sauce" in many top selling songs ?
because if you're right this should be a very important topic for anyone producing music, but i'm afraid you'll have a hard time backing up such a claim.

 

With the exception of Faust, everyone I've ever seen using any of these has almost always had a modular or synths hooked up as sound generators. The software is usually to provide, like you said, automation, more flexible FX, mix controls and to record. For abstract sound design and decimal point automation I agree that digital is king. I think almost all audiophiles would agree that for fidelity and tactility analog wins forever.
A little off-topic but I'm pretty sure that Zimmer wrote the Batman Begins/Dark Knight score with his Moog Modular and I heard somewhere that he arranged the Man of Steel on his workstation and then used a variety of of live instruments to recreate the virtual sounds.

+1 for the ARP2600. Even without MIDI parameter automation and keys, that thing is so capable.

@Avenel I love your monologues, brother. It's like watching Conan.

 

Well. It's not like I have any intentions on building one, is it?

There's no want, in my case.

What do you think I do. Sit there and go,"ooh! lets turn this knob and see what happens".

No I'm not>

At no point did I say I hate digital, so give it a rest. I said that "I hate menu diving!" Now I hope that's big enough for you to see, cos that's as big as the font goes. I do not want to have to do 4 or 5 clicks to go from VCO to LFO, or EG and 4-5 clicks to get back again. It's boring, teadious, and time consuming.

Come Again?

That's funny. I could of sworn you said that the theory came 1st.

So you do use the force.

For me knobbing and sliding, if there's no menu diving.

Space=yes, hastle=not had much, and no more than with software really. Money- yes good hardware will set you back, but it's usually an investment, unless you're stupid enough to flog it at the wrong time for peanuts. All that software that you keep banging on about doesn't come cheap. Add to that a powerful computer to be able to use it on, a decent midi controller or two, a good audio interface to get your digital creation into the analog world so you can hear it on your monitors, extra drives for all the sample libraries that you also have to pay for, plus yearly upgrades, so it doesn't become obsolete. Swings and roundabouts< really.

 

Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their analog.

 

@solo83
I never meant to be disrespectful, and excuse me if you were offended in anyway. Perhaps sometimes i get lost in "translation".
In the syntax and grammar i have been taught, when someone says "they all use this or that", using the present tense means they do it constantly and it is what they do and not selectively or occasionally. But you were talking about the EDM producers not all electronic artists so, to your compensation, that "quote" should be my bad. Cheers

 

You are obviously not an artist, nor a hacker... Math is Music

 

Because 3/4 of Kraftwerk are not really Kraftwerk lol. And even if they were, they ARE the robots man. They are entitled to do so. They 've been there done that, end of story. If you don't know, maybe you do, many years ago they played in Italy (not the current line up) and never showed up on stage. They were backstage controlling the robots that they had on stage to perform "for" them lol. They were the first in Europe to use a Moog synthesizer or build their own electronic drum pads in an era when L.Zeppelin,Queen etc were considered new bands and ruled the -then- modern music scene. They became infamous by stripping emotion out of music. Of course, philosophically speaking, to do this you need plenty of emotion to start with but this is another story. And its 2017. "The laptop" is in my gigging gear too. And it was in my gigging gear in 1997 as well. And in the studio too, back then and now. Does it say anything for me? Is it a piece of musical gear that you can identify with? I think it's safe to say it's not. Because it is a generic, do it all, machine.
It is not the laptop or the Moog Modular that will bring success or not to any musician, it is their inspiration and dedication imho. A good 25 years ago i was the first in my little micro-world to defend the computer's existence in a musician's workflow and showcase it. Still, as a thumb rule, it IS NOT a musical instrument per se. So when someone who is or wants to be a musician is asking if interacting with the real thing (a hardware synthesizer in our case) will benefit them, the answer should always be YES. Just as you can learn music by yourself, but a proper school and a teacher will benefit even the most talented who may not need one in the first place. You just can't advise someone do not learn guitar, learn how to use the ample sound plugs lol. It is unethical and unmusical to say the least, in a myriad different ways which i will not describe. Imho, as elder(?) artists/musicians we have an obligation towards the newer generations to preserve/teach tradition-history and at the same time encourage forward thinking, innovation and revolutionary & modern practices. Seeing everything through just one perspective (ie digital) is neither artistic nor innovative. It will never be about the means to an end and reaching a goal. It will always be about the journey man.
At age 51, i come completely from the analog world. I learned mix and remix by slicing and gluing tape for fuck's sake circa '83. As you, i was relieved when technology gave me the means to do away with a lot of bulky gear and hundreds of cables in my studio. It was only logical for me to translate to a hybrid/digital studio but ONLY because i knew how the real deal works. To tell the truth though, half of it was compromise due to space and money reasons. Personally i never regretted giving away my 303 but i do regret selling my Jupiter. I even regret selling my Urei limiter and monitors (huge and bulky but the thud was ... ah forget it). Using a hardware synth is not only educational. Every analog synth is different even among the exact same models. They have a personality just like every Stratocaster or Les Paul is different and this is what makes people stick with them when they do. Everybody would agree analog sounds better. As for your assumption of fixing it in the mix or while sound creating by adding fx (you said this many times) , it is one of the most common mistakes to avoid. It's like adding more salt to a badly cooked recipe. It is not a remedy. It is a cover up. You may fool the ignorant but not all.
Be well

 

Ok, time for an evaluation....

The question: Do you think it's worth to invest in a synth or stay with plugins?

1) YES.
- If you have the extra money to spent.
- If you're an audiophile.
- If you like to play with wires and love to tweak real knobs and sliders.
- If you think your productions will sound better, which will be noticed by your audience.
- If you're a live player who wants to impress the audience with beautiful gear.
- If you want to have the best of the best and want to compete with the "higher" class of professionals.
- If you want Avenel to come round to your house or studio one day to tell you you are a moron because you bought a hardware synth!

2) NO.
- If you don't have the extra money to spent.
- If you're a "normal" listener and don't hear the differences in sound.
- If you don't have much space in your recording room and don't care to drag your computer mouse to create sounds.
- If you're skilled and talented enough to make killer songs with only plugins. It already happened so it's possible.
- If you don't care to play with a laptop and a midi controller on stage.
- If you think your audience will not hear the difference in sound and will like your music productions anyway.
- If you don't have the ambition to compete with the best.
- If you think there is any chance Avenel might come round to your house or studio one day.

Anyone wants to complete the list?

 

Last edited: Mar 9, 2017

Get a Synth and Dildo combo. Why not have the real thing?

 

One for the NO list:

- If you think there is any chance Avenel might come round to your house or studio one day.