As a happy owner of a Massive Passive EQ i can safely say that i have used it on every master job i 've done and more. I highly suggest it if you can afford one. No soft emu of it comes close, unless one considers 75-80% of the sound is close. And 80% maybe ok for a home production but it's just not enough for a professional record release. And to get to topic,
@Avenel
Avenel as many others, don't seem to fathom, that music on the high gear (that means if you are a professional recording artist) is a precision practice. And precision in sound (along with other important factors) still comes from dedicated hardware crafted to excellence and one or more talented, educated and experienced set of ears. No matter what the kind of music is, every tiny detail, every nuance, every damn millisecond matters down to the single sample point zoom in the damn editor soft. If you have respect for yourself and the people who listen to you, you will do everything possible for your music to sound best and this is what makes you an artist if you are one and vice versa.
I am sorry to say this and i really mean no insult, but engineers with a mindset like Avenel have led music to what seems as a bottomless pit. True professional engineers both in studio and live have a thorough understanding of most kinds of music, can play one or more instruments and can read sheet music. They are humble like any other artist and do not diss anything in terms of hardware or software nor they disapprove anyone for their knowledge background because they know everything is acceptable, there is no border in creation. This is the gold standard my friend Avenel and from your writings you even seem to have a hard time naming things by making constant generic declarations. Like that 90% of electronic hits lol. Unless you think you know what VCO is and the rest of us are 16 yo with an iPad app. Not very professional mate.

 

There is an alternative if you cant afford a manley.
Its kind of my personal secret.Warm, silky, tube powered EQ.
When you need more distinct mids and highs without the added digital harshness, this is it.Also cleans up the bottom end mud like a champ.
Lindell Te-100 , modeled after the legendary and rare UE-100.
Even after you think you have it all right, putting this EQ as the last plugin in the chain will take your material to the next level.
https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/lindell_te-100.html

 

So if I understand correctly it's impossible to release a professional record without a quality hardware EQ?
What you're saying is: all released records that were not mastered with a hardware EQ are not professional....

Man, I need some aspirins....

 

Last edited: Mar 7, 2017

I would bet dollars to donuts that just about every major release is mastered with analogue in the signal chain for good reason, for the top mastering engineers can hear the difference in quality. It is just the way it is and no amount of rationalization can change that. Of course one could master, mix and create all in the digital realm, but using analogue gear adds something extra. That is the "why" hardware is used. You might not like to hear it as well as might not want to cop to it, heck, you might not hear the difference or even care because the difference might seem slight to you, but those that can do, and those that can afford it or save every penny to buy hardware do it because to THEM it makes a world of difference in the final product. You don't have to buy it if you don't wish to or think it is a waste of money, nobody is forcing you. I love my vst instruments and effects as well as my hardware instruments and outboard gear, and each benefits the other in my flow. I am happy to benefit from both camps. I just don't really understand the rationalizations and the flamethrowing you "digital rules" folk fling about and are so feisty about.

 

What an endless debate... analog x digital, windows x OSX, tomeito x tomato.
With every option we learn something, we go faster or boring speeds, we sound good or worst.. thats independent of the pick.
Sometime analog is much better, but if you add more plugins digital can be better or amazing different. But when we know how to get the best of all choices we can reach the sky.
i choose to work with Logic and windows slaves... I can have almost everything (except PT plugs)
I spent a fortune in synths in old days, I love them and mostly work them thru computer. As said they need lots of care and repair.
Each choice molded my been...
Now I will by some 6 and UA clones just because they made anything sounds better and quickly.
We leave in a world flooded with goodies and shit music and why? Because we have the tools and amateurs without any culture are more famous and well paid then the ones with pro formation... For me thats the real problem... Shit heads and funded musicians have the same tools, but shit people like shit musicians (if I can call that) because the industry can make more money with shit people than the ones with coffee in the mug.
Cheers!

 

Not endless; The seemingly endless battle between X-Box One and PS4 is finally won by PS4....
In the end there will always be a winner..... A good one or a bad one....

In the future analoque gear will get obsolete because the mass of the young new generation of music listeners (the ones you, as a professional producer and/or mastering engineer, try to make a living of) won't give a shit if a song is mastered with a hardware EQ or a virtual one. They really don't care and they won't hear the difference.
The only one who cares is the producer and/or the mastering engineer himself. Because he has spent thousands of dollars on the hardware and can hear the difference.
If he dies, finally the hardware will die with him....
"It is just the way it is and no amount of rationalization can change that"
But why do we care? If our listeners are happy, buying and listening our records, what's the problem?

 

Last edited: Mar 7, 2017

I never said this man. The Manley quote was made to justify as right the other friend's gearlust. There are levels in professionalism as well. I work mainly with a Focal set of speakers that costs about 5 grand. I have a friend who works with the Adam S7A large mains that cost 40 grand. The truth in mastering and mixing is not the gear but the ears. I 've heard masters with plugs that blew away masters done with hardware and vice versa. Whats the truth? Gear is secondary. But mandatory if you like. When you pay someone to master your track(s) you don;t just pay him for his gear, you confide in him. If it was just the gear, everyone with enough money would be a master engineer. Your music is the reflection of your soul. The master (and mix) engineer is much like your doctor or shrink if you want. Only his approach on your music needs not only to be scientific but artistic as well, needless to say it has to have your consent too. If you don't like it you will never work with that guy again. Btw, i never said that plugs is NOT gear. It is and quite professional too. If it wasn't ,Waves full suite wouldn't cost 7k. The thing is, as deep as you go into the rabbit hole, the deeper it gets. Which means soon as you feel confident to start mastering tracks, you will realize that plugs is not enough to reach a certain level of clarity and sweetness/fatness, and again if the high standard is where you are aiming at. You can drive a typical BMW fast but if you wanna race you need a different kind of BMW, get it? So you will either compromise and do what you do with plugs or start saving for some external hardware if you haven't already. It doesn't come cheap but at the same time ,mastering needs so much experience that you need to be at least 30 yo to grasp every kind of music thrown at you and do it properly. Which means you already had years of work behind you and gathered/kept some dough to do so. Look around you. You will never see a youngster as a master engineer. Like i said earlier it is a practice of precision and deep experience. With that said, following some guidelines will help you master your own tracks when you have no budget for it and its no shame of course. Just don't expect to sound Bob Ludwig

 

Last edited: Mar 7, 2017

I know what you're trying to say. The debate was about: is it worth to invest in a synth (hardware) or stay with plugs (software).
All the things you said above I already knew and I fully agree. The real question here is: Do you really need (very) expensive hardware to end up with a professional sounding master and/or sound production?.
You gave the answer already: " I've heard masters with plugs that blew away masters done with hardware and vice versa."
And don't forget: If you race to hard you can't enjoy the scenery.

 

Last edited: Mar 7, 2017

I slightly beg to differ. Not because i 've spent thousands in gear, which i have done and many times that as well. Because there will always be people who are in love with music and audiophiles. When you fall into this category of people, you really care, and the cycle of better gear is an ever evolving one. Because that is human nature, when you like something you just cannot get enough. Its like sex, hence the name of the forum hehe.

The problem is they are not buying the records lol. The record industry is crumbling if you haven't noticed so far. The majority of the musicians have moved to playing live as a major source of income, because records simply do not sell. There will always be exceptions but this concerns the majority. Wtf, i have started playing live 2 years ago, after 12 years of just studio work. Because studio work as we know it, is in its final stage of evolution imho, and close to demise. The question is for whom the bell tolls hehehe. I cannot complain. I 've had my fair share of best times.
Btw, there are hints of some new hope. 2016 found UK vinyl sales surpassing the cd sales. Which means there is a whole new gen of peeps buying into this old tech but at the same time of course means cd sales are the lowest ever lol. I really dunno if at the end there is true light in the horizon. Only time will tell.
Cheers

 

Forgive me if you knew all i mentioned, just because i quoted you it doesn't mean i was trying to lecture you . I maybe a hopeless romantic but i am not manic. I write for everybody to read. Anyway, yes you can do away with hardware and go full soft but you WILL NOT sound best if best is what you are aiming to be. A good combination of both yields the best results always. And now time to roll a biggie and sip some coffee. Cheers my friend.

 

send some over here (not coffee)

 

When vinyl outpaces CD sales I guess that's spells the end of the CD. I cannot envision a serious revival of the medium as such as we are in the thrall of with the nostalgic yet familiar warm reproductions spun now again on record players as the CD holds no magic and vibes way less as a positive and fond social phenomenon, not as held dearly by elders and the new young alike, drawn to a combination of nostalgia and the quite literally groovy grooving sound that those big black disks impart on our memories, heartstrings and earz. CDs and the Dodo, gone baby gone.

 

I started buying cds again.People will return to this outstanding and practical medium, though i love lps as well.
Its a trend thing.

 

Ha! I beg to differ. Why will people be returning when they have and will have ever larger storage media that they need not carry and which can sound "better" than a CD can physically deliver? I wouldn't actually define a continual trend towards ever lesser and lesser sales a trend. I believe that CDs will take the place of cassette tapes, eight tracks and wax covered rolls. Speakers haven't much changed in 90 or so years, the quality only becoming greater and greater as time has flown by, but medium of storage of sound keeps on changing. This is supposedly the first recorded sound....

 

Want to just invest? Buy a really good ARP2600 or a Yamaha CS80. Of course if it's just an investment, go for a '58 Les Paul with a single digit serial.

 

In 2017, I personally would not invest in a hardware synth unless it was a solid analog, preferably VCO over DCO. My favorite hardware of old have all been emulated really, really well as plugins. (Juno, JP, DX, M1)

In a perfect world, I would love hardware/analog over soft synths, because of the workflow. But then you have to deal with costs of fixing parts, bad keys, amount of time to achieve a sound & sequence vs amount of in software, cost of good cables, etc.

What I've done is get a hold of the most solid soft synth emulations + a couple analog synths to use on the road or without the PC.

Everything hits the digital realm at some point, the biggest thing for me is just how much fun + how convenient & time efficient it is to make music. Analog vs digital is boring & 99.99% of people listening can't tell the difference or gives a flying f***.

 

Well it kind of is, when the people who create and edit the pages are the producers themselves. You can create a profile yourself as a music producer.

 

Why are you misquoting me though? I never insinuated once that any of those producers EXCLUSIVELY USE just vsti plugs. Nor did I ever insinuate anything (let along even mention it) about the album RAM. I said they use vsti plugs, not that they use them on every song, or that they don't use hardware synthesis. That's literally all I said..lol No need to gaslight my comment or make assumptions about things I've never said. Thanks

 

See what you've done . . .