Line 6 Helix Native puts those Helix sounds in your DAW


Line 6 has just announced that you will be able to get the sounds of the Helix into your DAW using the new Helix Native plugin. It’s due a little later this year, apparently, and it means you can work with those sounds in your computer without having to own the hardware.

Essentially the Helix Native plug-in is the sound engine of the Helix system that you can run in your host DAW to achieve the sounds from the award-winning Line 6 range. Just like the Helix hardware, the Helix Native plug-in supports 3rd party impulse responses as well.

Line 6 have a dedicated page for the new software and you can register your interest on the site.
The new software is, of course, compatible with the Line 6 Helix hardware as well, so you can swap patches and also build them in your host DAW to share into your pedalboard, for example. Plus, if you already own any of the Helix range, so either a Helix, Helix Rack or POD Farm, then you will be entitled to a discounted pricing structure for the new software.

Available as a 15-day demo version, so you can try it out and it comes in VST/AU/AAX formats for PC and Mac.

RRP $399

http://line6.com/helix-native/

 

bye-bye Pod Farm, hello Helix Native?

 

it seems like not but the price left me Doubting

 

299 bucks for POD Farm 2.5 Platinum ain't cheap either. if this Helix Native plug sounds close to the hardware analog, and I guess it does, then I don't see any need for PODs, regardless if software or hardware. Helix is superior sounding. 100$ price difference would be worth it.

 

Now that's really interesting. Another solid contender in the VST realm. Now it just needs to be released in AZ

 

nah, that's unlikely. they still don't know how to unlock Pod Farm. why would be Helix Native story any different?

 

I'm doubting this will sound like the hardware in so many ways

Biggest problem speaker IR'S,
What makes the ax kemper and the Helix different is the high resolution speaker cab irs. (among other things)
Correct me if Im wrong but I dont think a pc is fast enough to handle these large Hi res IR'S

(copied from wiki)
Normal Res: 1024 samples, 20 ms
Hi/Ultra-Res: Hi Res IRs (2040 samples, 40 ms)
Ultra-Res IRs (up to 8000 samples, 170 ms)

(copied from Wiki which is cliff)
it is my opinion that you need IRs much longer than 20 ms to fully capture the "mic'd amp in the studio" sound. My tests show that IRs of 8000 samples are required to fully capture the low-frequency detail. Unfortunately to process an 8K IR in real-time require copious processing power... Fortunately I have developed "Ultra-Res" cabinet modeling. Ultra-Res cabinet modeling provides the frequency detail of a very long IR with little or no added processing power requirements. The following image depicts the response of Ultra-Res cabinet IR processing: ..
(end)


From what I read speaker irs account for over 50% of the tone.

Please correct me if Im wrong. Im interested in this subject as it tells us what the future in PC modeling holds.

 

Last edited: Jan 20, 2017

well, for 400 bucks price tag they better give their customers something at least close to the hardware Helix. otherwise no one will bother. at the same time, yeah, to be somewhat equal to the hardware, this Native plug must tax pc resources quite heavily.

 

helix will let us try 15 demo, maybe there's a hole that the teams can crack. Yes, any team that makes this software will be more heroes than they already are

 

Yes, you're wrong. First, most Helix users prefer the sound of 3rd party cabs as according to them they just sound better. For example: 3 Sigma Audio impulses are very popular among Helix users. These are cut at 150ms IIRC as they don't consider there's more energy left in them to be sampled. More than enough if you ask me, but if you want even longer IRs you still have Ownhammer Impulses up to 500ms. The impact on the CPU of modern computers of such impulses is fairly minimal, if any. I myself deleted all Ownhammer folders excepted the 500ms to save HD space

If you want "high resolution" cabs with a massive CPU hit at zero latency, try Nebula ones. In fact you could even combine them with the Helix.

 

Matched with this it would be awesome.
http://line6.com/variax-modeling-guitars/shuriken

 

Yes, Nebula OwnHammer are the best ever, if you want real sound in the mix.

Everything else on the regular non-dynamic impulses are the same now.
BUT there is a subtlety : Axe FX II use some tweaks on regular impulses.
And more and more cab sims add tweaks on regular impulses.

To me, regular impulses are flawed since the beginning, because they are static.
Everything else added (like modulation on reverbs, multiband dynamic on speakers cabs..) is just there to hide those flaws.

Nebula rules the world, as far as realism goes. And Ownhammer are still the best, even years after.
Low end crunch, highs sizzle, definition, dynamic...

 

I wonder how current Ownhammer impulses compare with the discontinued ones. Is it worth the hassle with Nebula? I doubt it's usable in real-time situation because of a high cpu tax.

Would love some feedback on 3 Sigma Audio vs Rosen Digital and some thoughts on Cabireu IRs as well

 

Try it for yourself. You have everything you need in the sister site to compare them.

Regarding the Rosen Vs. Sigma. There is just no debate, actually. They have the same "vibe", as they are made by the same people. Some of them are VERY similar. Main difference is that 3 positions on Rosen Digital have little differences, whereas 3 Sigma has 5 positions with more apparent tonal changes and they come in two poweramp variants (SS vs tube). They are also cheaper and you can mix and match your bundles.

So, I think it's actually pretty clear that there's no point on purchasing Rosen Digital impulses anymore now that 3 Sigma is offering the same, but better and cheaper.

 

Torrao thank you. I don't want to mess with Nebula if it's not usable for real-time processing because of a latency issue. if I can't play and record with it real-time, then it's a no-go for me. so just to save some time, if anyone had an experience with both Nebula Ownhammer and regular Ownhammer IR's, your comments are still appreciated.

 

i second that

 

The IRs in those units are most often lower res. And the marketing train must've been working real hard for you (And other people apparently) to think that a simple device like an Axe or a Helix have more cpu power than even a simple Core i3 from 5 years back.. not even close.

I'm really surprised people think devices like that have more power than regular normal PCs. Some really warped thinking going on there, sorry.

The one advantage hardware units have is that they _bundle_ the input, dsp and output. So they can deliver high quality converters, and match the DSP processing / input leveling to the input impedance of their device and the same on the output. It's everything you need in one close box so they can make sure it sounds perfect with that. On the pc side (Yes, I call Macs PCs too) you have legions of different audio interfaces and output configurations, software configurations and the biggest problem: the person sitting in between the chair and the monitor :P.

Hardware units like those guitar processors can do _Nothing_ PC's can't do. I'll even go one step further, those hardware units (including the Axe Fx2 family) don't do anything the PC side hasn't been doing for years already.

But since everything is in one contained, _controlled_ package it's hard for the end-user to f*ck it up and everything is dialed into the components inside the units itself. It just plain works.

A helix costs almost 1500,- euro here. If you think about the fact that it's a small-power PC, AND a high-quality audio interface with multiple inputs and outputs, AND the amp-sim software (+ R&D) _AND_ the user-interface and control buttons / unit.. the price isn't that high to be honest. A small PC + OS license is 300 to 400 euro's (cheapest Mac mini is like 500 euros or something?), a good audio interface is 200 euro's or more, add in 400 euro's for amp-sim software and a bit for a piece of hardware with buttons, expression pedal and the display + usb connectivity, and I would be at 1200 to 1300 euro's I guess. So 1500,euro's for an all-in-one ready-out-the-box solution isn't wrong in my mind. Yes, with that PC you can do so much more, but the all-in-one hardware unit is soo much easier and foolproof . Depends on what you find more important.

So for people like me who are interested in the helix (or an Axe for that matter, all the same to me) but since I'm mostly playing in my home-studio environment and being tech-savvy the all-in-one-easy-solution isn't worth the premium to me.

So then Line6 says OK, you can do it yourself, here is the amp-sim component for 400 euro and good luck. I think that's awesome! Imagine if the AxeFX guys would done that a year ago, it would sell like crazy. Their trying to go in a route like that with their reverb plugin and cab-emu plugin now, but imagine if they released their 'amp block' first as native plugin... It seems Line6 have beaten them to the punch. Some great thinking there.

But I'm afraid the pod/spider-reputation of Line6 means a lot of people will also look at this with the old opinion of 'line6 sucks' or they start thinking 'I will wait till Fractal Audio will do the same and then buy that'.

Just trust me in one thing: If you can't get a good (realistic) guitar sound out of Kazrog Thermionik, S-Gear, Amplitube4, TSE X50 (or heck, maybe even Positive Grid's stuff) then you're not going to get a good guitar sound out of an Atomic AmpliFire, Helix, a Kemper or the AxeFX. The amp-modeling in those units is nothing special compared to somewhat-recent amp-sim work on the PC. Easier and foolproof, YES. Other reasons to buy a device (like gigging, taking it along, etc.) -> all valid. Thinking it's the only way to get a good digital guitar sound? Nope.

That all being said I'm really looking forward to this, but 400 euro's for my home studio stuff is kinda steep, _considering_ I have Thermionik and Amplitube4 (Amplitube4 + MESA) already. Oh, and Mercurial Spark. I'm very interested in what Helix does, but I don't believe it's going to add that 'wow' factor compared to the amp sims I already own. Maybe it's better or it contains a few interesting models, but to pay 400 euro's just for that.

Extremely good idea Line6, just not for me personally .

 

I couldn't track using any ampsim / cab and monitoring it. Latency totally messes with me while I'm playing. My solution was just to Y out the DI into an amp and monitor that way.
Another solution would be to track it with an impulse and change to the Nebula cab during mix down.
I hate when I see this type of comment because to me it's not a solid reason to exclude using Nebula for cabinet emulation.
I'm hoping that Nebula 4 renews the development of cabinet libraries for Nebula!

 

You can't buy Ownhammer Nebula cabinets anymore, so if no one uploads them into the sister site you just can't try them

Also, there's nothing wrong with using Nebula after the guitars are tracked. I mean, you're saying that you never tweak your ampsim impulses after you tracked to better fit in the mix anyway?

Acustica Audio won't probably be doing any guitar stuff in 2017 (they're focused in reverbs I think), but 2018 may be the year they dive into saturation stuff and ultimately guitar Acqua ampsims. Now that will be something to behold.

 

well, for me it is a solid reason. amping DI or recording with a different tone and changing it later is not an option for me. first I find the tone that inspires me, then I record. not the other way around. you can hate it or not, I don't care.

guys, I would like comments about Ownhammer Nebula vs current Ownhammer impulses. difference in sound quality, tone. if you have something to contribute about the subject, please do. if you have not, please stop making irrelevant remarks. thank you.