Hi guys!

Is somebody here can explain what is exactly loopback (in audio world), found this option into Saffire MixControl (I'm using Focusrite Saffire PRO 14 audio interface).

Also I've seen this option into trial version of ASIO Link Pro (here from O Deus Audio) named "LOOPER IN" and "LOOPER OUT" racks (PDF manual isn't really explicit about loopback features)

Thank your very much in advance.

 

Last edited: Jan 15, 2017

I've used ASIO Link before to enable multiple channels that could be used by my Komplete 6 audio interface by multiple programs simultaneously.
A program using ASIO drivers will usually take exclusive control of the audio interface unless you use JACK, VBAC, ReWire (which brings it's own problems) or ASIO Multiclient but that doesn't support 64-bit AFAIK. With ASIO Link I set up a virtual mixer that can run audio channels between standalone instances of Ableton Live and Maschine and I could set audio to be recorded from any other Windows programs like the browser so I could sample youtube videos into Maschine and route the resulting audio back into Ableton. Usually you'd need an actual mixing console or a dedicated audio interface for each program to do this.
Normally an ASIO device would output to your DAWs selected outputs and end there (unless you used third-party software or additional outputs for extended routing). Using the Loopback function you can send your collective DAW output to multiple other sources on the same computer.

I basically used it for live sampling stuff I found on the net. I'm sure there are other, more advanced functions loopback could allow, especially for those with multiple hardware Ins and Outs. Or if you're podcasting.

 

Last edited: Jan 15, 2017

Thanks a lot Pinkman about you clear (and concise) explanations.

If I've correctly understood the loopback principle, it's a kind of virtual "return to sender" or "splitter", I'm right?

I've understood globally how "ASIO Link" is working - I mean, all racks (except LOOPER IN and LOOPER OUT), also unterstood how work ASIOVADPRO interfaces (kind of gateway between WDM/WASAPI/MM/DirectSound worlds to ASIO), also multiclient principle (acting as client-server model to "bypass" exclusive control ASIO limitation), but by your reply, it's interessing to discover the ASIO multiclient doesn't support 64-bit (for audio processing, I presume?).

I'm testing ASIO Link Pro (v2.4.4.0 trial - despite sound cuts every minute) not for real usage/need, but because I'm curious (for my personal knowledge).

Thanks again Pinkman to share your knowledge (here, and in many topics on AS).

 

Last edited: Jan 15, 2017

That's what I understood the Loopback rack to be. A splitter for the already summed signal, which you could route back into the original source or entirely new destinations.

I tried JACK too. On my PC there didn't seem any difference in latency but ASIO Link did use more CPU.

I'm still learning bud. Who here isn't?

This is the Steinberg ASIO Multiclient driver I was talking about. It runs on a 64-bit machine but I've only been able to get it to detect 32-bit programs.
ASIO Link's Multiclient works on x64 just fine.

 

For now it's more clear, I'm experimenting loopback feature, from Saffire ASIO (without ASIO Link Pro - not loaded)...

I don't have any CPU load or latency/distortion problem, but I'm working always on small projects (around 10-15 tracks only, mainly audio, one EQ on master, one verb). Also multiclient with maximum 2 instances (REAPER <-> Ableton 9 Lite). Assuming my rig isn't ridiculous (all details in profile) for a simple hobbyist (at home).

I've read some articles couple of days ago about JACK technology. Must investigate, but later.

The essence of the life (IMO), discovering and learning every day... at any age (I'm 53).

I consider ASIO Link technology as excellent, really - but a nicer GUI will be appreciated (like Reason GUI with beautiful cables / chassis / connectors, rack labels, etc) - but ASIO Link does the job, and perfectly, it's the most important IMO. However, I don't like its licensing, not fair (two machines max per license - even if machine can be disabled prior ro transfer to another) also assuming "a bit" expensive. Perhaps I'll plan to buy it (8 IN 8 OUT for 49.95 AUD ~ 38 euros) only if really I'll need it (for project or screencasting). Actually, it's just for experimentations - like a game ...

Perhaps Steinberg is working on enhancements about his ASIO technology... an upgraded ASIO SDK who permit manufacturers to develop x64 multiclient ASIO drivers for their interfaces... Ok, I'm a sweet dreamer, and finally, this is an another story.

 

Last edited: Jan 15, 2017

If you're routing between Reaper and Ableton only (no WDM audio) you could also try using ReaRoute, Reaper's native multi client ASIO driver.
ReaStream allows MIDI and audio over LAN for multiple machines. Assuming, of course, that you haven't already played with this. They're both free to use.
You're right about the ASIO Link GUI. It does get the job done so there is that.

I've posted on a couple different threads here when I was connecting Ableton, Maschine and Bidule (originally with ReWire) but then decided to use JACK plus CTRLR to send audio and MIDI between Ableton and Maschine when they were both in standalone instead of VST in host.

https://audiosex.pro/threads/maschine_ableton-live_bidule-configuration-rewired.25855/
https://audiosex.pro/threads/jack-audio-on-widows-help.24995/#post-189569

Maybe you'll find something useful in there.

 

I could never get into ASIO Link Pro. For what its worth, I use VoiceMeeter. Its way more intuitive and easier to set up, especially if you're trying to create loopback functionality.

 

I've tested ReaRoute some months ago, of course for 1 <-> 1 (from/to REAPER) it works fine. If I remember it was from REAPER to AmpliTube, and from Addictive Keys to REAPER (just for fun).

About MIDI over LAN (more precisely over WLAN in my case) I'm using rtpMidi (only virtual MIDI cables, no audio) to connect my iPad (as remote) to PC via WiFi - it's useful when I'm in sofa - to playing drums pads, to control DAW mixer or VLC transport (when I'm watching movie).

Do you remember about our "small story" - together - concerning Plogue's Chipsounds, recently? lol - it's anecdotal of course, in fact you've mentioned "Bidule", from Plogue too...



Now I'll must go to bed, I'm tired, so I'm afraid in advance to have "AZERTYUIOP" etched on my brow in few minutes.

 

I have tested Voicemeeter, ASIO Bridge and VB-Cables many months ago, I agree about one point : mixer GUI is nice, but (unfortunately) I was never able to route anything to anything (in particular WDM to ASIO) - sure it's my fault. Despite an email sent to developer, I've received an incomprehensible explanation from him (or surely, my question was incomprehensible for him).

Probably I'm kind of idiot lol - and surely I need a book named "Audio routing for dummies"

For mixing/routing both ASIO and WDM family, ASIO Link seems to be perfect for me, despite its ugly GUI.

 

Last edited: Jan 15, 2017

Me too. We should talk studiomux when you're not so tired.

@aymat VBAC was the wrong acronym for Virtual Audio Cable but same devs as Voicemeeter. I've used Banana before. Cool GUI but my favorite thing about it was the sound of the feedback. I know, I'm an idiot but I love processing that stuff and for some reason there was something ethereal about it.

 

Another game for me? EDIT: seems to use USB cable (iPad USB cable is very short) but I'll try it ASAP, no trial version - it's the Apple world (fortunately I've found an .IPA elsewhere - be quiet lol)
Mine nights will become very short (like lastest)
very much Pinkman!

 

Last edited: Jan 15, 2017

loopback is actually a "physical" connection in my old soundcard.

Very usefull for streaming or flux pure analyzer

 

No problem. This app really enhanced my workflow. Drop the studiomux VST in your DAW and you can turn your iPad into a dedicated external send/receive FX box with touch capabilities. With multiple channels, no less. Works well with Audiobus for creating FX chains.
Recieive audio from DAW > iPad FX chain > Send back to DAW with no latency. So cool.

 

Hi (again) for sure, studiomix seems to be cool. I'll try to test it during week (I'll take my time to test it - deeply as possible).
very much Pinkman!

 

Loopback is a generic term which means the output is sent back to the input. So you send the outputs 1-2 of your DAW back into inputs say 3-4 in your interface. Then you can use something like XSplit or OBS and use inputs 3-4 while screencasting for recording tutorials or livestreaming. You can also do stuff like route audio from some other application to your DAW and record. Think games, YouTube, Skype, whatever.

 

Thanks a lot Qrchack for your explanations about loopback in audio world (surely it is also applicable for MIDI flow - but I'll verify this) and their possible applications such YT, screencasting and so on. Now it's clear in my mind.

 

Yes, it does apply to MIDI as well. In fact, it started as a term for networking - 127.0.0.1 or "localhost" is a loopback to your PC, regardless of its actual IP. With MIDI or audio you need a software driver to do the job. Or you can do it with hardware. Just patch a TRS cable from your output 3 to input 3 and output 4 to input 4. Same for MIDI - connect output to input, though I don't see any use for it at the moment - this would give you MIDI from your DAW back to your DAW. With a bigger MIDI interface, when you have say 8 MIDI inputs and 8 MIDI outputs, yeah it could be useful.

Edit: a quick search for "loopback MIDI" show several options. With them you can route MIDI between programs.
http://www.nerds.de/en/loopbe1.html
http://www.sionsoft.com/hubi.html

 

There is a lot of good info I don't quite understand. But I believe Loopback in Focusrite MixControl speak is the ability to route computer audio thru the interface. i.e. Youtube, soundcloud etc.

 

There's also loopMIDI. Developed by Tobias Erichsen, same guy that made rtpMIDI. There's no limit to the number of virtual MIDI ports created, it's free and it uses the same virtualMIDI driver as rtpMIDI. I've tried pretty much all the virtual MIDI software including the graphically rich copperLAN and loopMIDI uses the least CPU (virtually none) and have yet to experience any MIDI data dropouts.
If you need more MIDI configuration the MIDI Yoke NT version still runs on Windows 10.

 

Thanks... again!!!
I'm a bit busy because I'm doing some C.M. software updates on my iPad (such lastest Audiobus, TouchOSC, Cubasis to v2 etc) - thanks to i***Cake website lol! - in order to test Studiomix.

I don't really understand this (language barrier probably): and have yet to experience any MIDI data dropouts.
I understand you've MIDI dropouts issues with loopMIDI under 10?

EDIT: CooperLANmanager GUI is very cool, I like it!

 

Last edited: Jan 17, 2017