This is a follow up to several post made by Von Steyr about "Magic Boxes" and vintage emulation plugins. Also, a thanks to people like Von Steyr and One Reason who take the time to post their knowledge here. Greatly appreciated! To the naysayer's, yes there are "Magic Boxes" and certain tricks to achieve that perfect sound. OK, on with the story...

There is a male vocal sound I have been trying to achieve ever since I heard it on a classic Hard Rock album by a well known producer. It's airy and breathy yet full and the reverb just shimmers like angels "aaaahhhh". Incredible. Words cannot accurately describe this sound. The best I have ever heard. Maybe that's a start.

This producer also has several of his own takes on the "Bonham" huge drum sound. When I was able to duplicate it, I was very happy indeed. "That's a ten thousand dollar drum sound" I shouted. Haha. It really is a ten thousand dollar drum sound if you include his fees.

Even had read several articles on him so I had some idea what type of gear he would have used but that's not always the case. The record can be tracked at one studio, over dubs in another and mixed in a third. Don't trust those linear notes. I have spent a small fortune on gear but no matter what I tried, still couldn't achieve that vocal and reverb sound.

Never had worked with this producer before but believe we had met several times, just a quick hello, that's it. I had worked in the past with several bands he had produced on different records but they couldn't really help me in getting "that sound".

Well, as fortune would have it, about a year and a half ago, somebody put me in touch with him. Turns out we have many mutual friends and he said it was a shame we had never worked together. Really great guy! Well, we talked about life, the music business (and how hard it is to still make a living at it). The joys of two inch tape (and the joys of not having to align tape heads) as well as several classic records he had worked on.

Finally we talked about this particular record. OK, now is my chance to really find out how to achieve "that vocal sound". Some producers don't want to give up their secrets easily. It's part of their sound and it's what made them famous. I told him I would guess what gear he used and then suggest gear I would use to get that sound.

Vocal mic, no brainer. Remember it's a male vocalist: Neumann u67. That's correct. Great, I own one.
Mic pre: Like I said, I had read several articles about his gear so I guessed a popular American console that he had owned but I would choose a Neve. Turns out he also owned a Neve and used it's in board pres. Great, own several. The pres not the console.
Compressor: For the more aggressive songs I would guess a 1176 and more ballad songs a LA2A. Personal choice would be a Tube Tech CL1B. Wrong. He used a compressor that is more popular in English studios. Can't say I saw too many of them over here. That's alright. I own a pair of clones of the compressor he used. That is not the key to the sound. Then on to the Two inch tape machine.
So all in all, nothing too uncommon and easily achievable by anybody here.

Next: Mixing time.
Reverb: Lexicon 480. Hands down that's the key. Why I always wanted one. I had to settle for a 224 but he had to have used a 480. Wait, didn't the 480 come out after the album was released? Didn't matter. Maybe he had a prototype. Never been able to dial up that sound on a 480 but maybe he had written a great preset for it.

Nope: real plate reverb. Really? The reverb just make the vocals sound, well, like nothing else I have heard. Once again airy and breathy are the only words I can use to describe this sound. Now I am not only humbled but humiliated. This is how I made (and still make) a living. I'm actually very good at picking gear out of a mix and dialing in a sound. It's what has gotten me so many jobs in the past. There is just something going on with this "vocal sound" that is throwing everything off for me.

I mentioned he was a great guy so he started to explain how he was routing everything. I quickly broke out a piece of paper. Two inch tape to console. English compressor on an insert. The compressor is either stereo or dual mono, so he is using only one side here. On to the channel eq. Now this is where it gets interesting. He said he does his old trick to the vocal, to the other channel of the compressor, to the Neve eq. And of course the plate reverb on a buss. Ah ha. That's it. He is compressing, eq'ing, compressing and eq'ing again. Double compressing and double eq'ing in other words. That is his vocal trick. I've seen it done before but it's not too common. That must be how he gets the vocal to sound so full on the aggressive sections and airy and forward in the softer parts. Multiple eq points and lightly compressing each one of them so they are not pumping.

Well, having now having learned the secret finally, I thanked him for all his time. Definitely humbled by the experience but at least that cleared up a lot of misconceptions I had about a record that I love so much. Or did it?

Fast forward to a couple of months ago when Von Steyr had the "Audacity" to post about "Magic Plugins". Von Steyr must believe in fairy tales also, said the scoffers. Well, I believe in magic plugins and boxes. This is not a blind faith belief. My belief is based on having actually heard "Magic Boxes" with my own ears. To the heretics who post on here (haha), have you even seen a real Fairchild 660 valve limiter in person, much less used one? We use to own one and that's one I would call magic. Have you ever used a Quantec QRS. We had one. Pure magic.

I never went to a recording school. Learned the hard way by (luckily) being paid to be on both sides of the glass, as they say. Have either used and or owned pretty much every piece of good studio gear that has come out but something might have slipped by me. I am always ready to listen to somebody else for some help, tips or tricks I might have missed. On a side note, for anybody who is getting starting in recording or even been working for years, watch Bobby Owsinski's 101 Mixing Tricks videos. He uses a lot of tricks I had forgotten about. Great videos.

What is this strange box, a Acustica D361A, Von Steyr is posting about. It looks cool. Not many buttons though. Is it like a Roland Dimension D? Like I said, I have faith so better check it out. OK, It's made by Acustica Audio. A company that's know for bringing the fastest computers to their knees. And it's a VST but I run PT. Not off to a good start but nobody said your faith would never be tested. Find out it is based off of a Dolby 361 A type noise reduction. A cold chill runs up my back. I've never seen one of these. Such things were never discussed openly in polite company and they were always kept locked away in a storage closet in the tape machine room. Out of sight out of mind as they say. I can only remember using Dolby SR anyway. "Magic" would not be a word I would ever use to describe something called Dolby and that includes Thomas!

So what going on then? Dolby works by basically brightening everything before it went to tape (encoding) and the removing the added brightness (decoding) coming off the tape also removing some of the tape noise in the process. Not great but was about the only way they could think to do it, except for running the tape speed faster but tape bills would eat your studio up. Further reading explains they are only using the encoding side. I've recorded things to tape in the past with a little high end eq added because by the end of the sessions, you would loses some highs from the iron oxide particles rubbing off. On a well maintained machine, it shouldn't make much of a difference but you don't always have the luxury of mixing at a well maintained studio. Still nothing fancy. Just add some high end, like an "Air" eq right?

Nope, the Dolby splits the frequencies in to four bands and only works at a certain threshold. For louder passages you would need less or even no noise reduction. what they are doing is removing several resistors from the board so the 361 is only affecting the two upper bands. On the Dolby 360 they would remove two cards but same principle. On loud vocal passages, you get very little to no "brightening" at these specific frequencies but on softer passages, they are compressed more so the vocal really will stand out of a mix and have an airy and breathy sound to it. The only thing similar would be like an aural exciter but it's not. Don't let those two words frighten you off. Totally different principle and more importantly totally different sound. Sounds like nothing else out there because there is nothing else out there.

This got me to thinking, loud passages = full sound. Soft passages = airy and breathy. What if it's not the reverb making the vocals breath but the exact opposite. The brighter and airy vocals on softer passages is affecting the reverb? That's it! That's the tone I have been struggling with forever. I tracked down somebody who had worked with this producer in the past though not on the album I'm talking about. Explained everything to him and he confirmed it. Said, "yeah, he didn't tell you the trick to his vocal sound? He always did protect it like a trade secret".

The producer hadn't mislead me, he actually had explained what he's doing. Just didn't tell me exactly what the trick was. Tape to console where he is splitting the signal. The first channel goes to the board pre, compressor on the insert and then to the channel eq. The second channel goes to the board pre, the 361 on the insert into the other side of the compressor, to the board eq. Reverb on a buss. This way he can control with a fader how much or how little effect you are hearing. He's never tracking with the effect so if anybody ever listened to the master tracks, they would never be able to figure out what he had done.

Well an old dog can learn new tricks and I do all the time. Now the proud owner of a Dolby 361. Will be doing the switchable mods so it's the unaltered sound, then switch to drop the lower two frequencies, then another switch to change the upper eq points. Can't wait!

To all the non-believers still out there, and there will always be a few, if you say "oh, that's so easy" or I knew it all along" I'll take you at your word. But I have asked many well known and respected engineers and producers through the years and nobody ever got it right.

I can see the comments that will be soon coming, "Well what does this magic box really sound like", "We don't believe you" and "We demand to hear that incredible album you keep talking about, Now". Ye of little faith. Sorry but it was a private conversation. If I told you the album, you will know who the producer is and it was always thought of as a private conversation. I have kept many of the details as vague as possible so nobody would be able to guess who it is.

It has been reported to have been used on records by Queen and The Beatles. I would venture to guess ELO has also used this trick. Seems to be more of a English known trick than American. I would suggest with this one, a little goes a long way. Use it sparingly but for the right song. Wow.

Time to learn some more. Has anybody gotten the Acustica Audio Acqua Plugins to work with PT's? Did you use the Transvst or AAX upgrade kit method? Was it usable or latency too high? Would love to try the plugin version of the 361 out.

I don't have a lot of free time but would gladly answer any questions I get. I just don't know what my schedule is like from day to day so please don't get offended if I don't get back to you right away. Please use this post to list any "magic boxes" and "magic plugins" you have used. Help somebody else out.
All the best.

 

Thank you so much for sharing that pearl if wisdom. Those are the kind of arcane secrets that I am sure a chosen few might like to keep under many layerers of wraps, hidden away from the google of masses. Years of hard work, alchemical transformation of sound waves into gold dripping from the monitors after years of toil only to be shared amongst a close knit coven of English witches and guarded unto death! Magick indeed. It would be nice to hear said songs of reference, but I can understand your reluctance to further betray a confidence. The path might surly lead back to your door, and it is certainly not a fruitful endeavor to foster ill will within ones professional circle. Again, thank you for the story as well as the step by step, if I ever get a handle on a 361 or pick up the Acoustica version I will most certainly put the process to the test.

 

Thank you for the kind words superliquidsunshine. I was thinking about my post after I made it. I would say 98% of the people had suggested a 480 for reverb. I don't remember anybody guessed a real plate. The 361 just does something to the sound to make it "breath".

The sad (but good for you) thing is you can buy a used 361 cheaper than what Acustica Audio was selling their plugin for. I highly recommend everyone to at least try it out. Might not be your cup of tea but it has a classic sound I have been trying to duplicate for years.

The second happiest day of my life was opening my first large commercial recording studio. The first happiest day of my life was selling it Haha. It is a strange business. I have never been famous or an A or B call engineer. C call on a good day. What I did have was a good pair of ears, drive and a little luck. I took advantage of any opportunity that came my way.

Since this is a post about "magic boxes" and emulation plugins, I will offer some tips on the biggest mistakes I hear people make in trying to get a classic sound.

Tip #1 Gain staging. This applies to everybody but the biggest mistake I hear begins with gain staging. Do yourself a favor and buy the Hornet VU meter. It will get your levels up and running in about 3 minutes and 30 seconds, cause that's how long your song is, right? It will extend your life by years!

Tip #2 Limit your track count. I was told by somebody who worked on a Def Leppard album that they used 2 Sony 3348 tape machines synced up just for Joe Elliott's background vocals. That's 96 tracks. So what? Every other record you heard was 24 tracks. Limit your tracks!

Tip #3 Neve Emulation. Great, I can emulate a classic Neve console just like they used on my favorite albums. Wrong. Most of the classic albums you hear where probably recorded on a MCI or some other console. I think most of the Queen records and some Zeppelin records were done on MCI consoles. Yes, I know the story about Helios modules but that's for another day.

Does any company make an emulation plugin of a MCI console? I shudder to think about it.

Neve's were just too expensive to own. We had one but we were an exception not the rule. You were more likely to find Neve's in TV and Broadcasting stations than recording studios. When the broadcasting stations started "upgrading" their gear is when Neve's started showing up more in commercial recording studios.

Lesser known consoles can sound fantastic anyway. Listen to "Love is Alive" by Gary Wright. I think that was mixed on a Quad 8 Coronado.

Tip #4. Tape emulation. I can emulate a well maintained Studer, just like everybody used. Wrong. Once again, probably a MCI. The only common denominator for tape machines would be Ampex 456.

Tip #5 Compression. I can use 8 Fairchilds and 15 1176 compressors, my tracks sound amazing. Well maybe you can but they didn't. As I mentioned, we owned a Fairchild. The only other Fairchild I ever saw was behind glass on display. Nobody owned them. Maybe Ocean Way had a pair but I don't remember ever seeing them over there.

As far as compression goes, you would be lucky to find 3 1176's and a pair of LA2A's in a studio. Usually they had a couple of great compressors and a few not really great compressors. Limit your compression usage and put them on a buss.

Tip #5 Reverb. Well, everybody had several Lexicon 480 reverbs of course. That's how they got that huge sound. Once again, not really. In the early days, the EMT 140 plate was pretty much it for reverb. Most studios did invest a lot of money into their main reverb unit, be it a EMT 140 plate, Lexicon 224 or 480 for the vocals. Like I mentioned, we had a Quantec QRS. Most people have never even heard of those units. Then studios would own a second tier reverb. Something like a PCM 70. Last but not least, the final reverb would be a third tier one. Probably a Yamaha Rev 7. Does anybody make a Rev 7 emulation plugin? I wake up shivering at night thinking about those units. I would venture to guess you have heard a Rev 7 more often on your favorite albums than the mighty Lexicon 480.

OK, to wrap things up: limit your track count, limit your options and use a combination of great and not so great sounding plugins. I hope these tips help somebody and maybe clear up a few myths floating around. The answers can change depending on what decade or even what year we are talking about. Remember, if 56 Fairchild compressors on a song sounds good to you, well then it is good.
Let your ears decide.

 

"Love is Alive" ..... Great song, great sound.

 

There was a sound, but the performance quality of the artists involved and their musicianship is commonly overlooked.

People used to go out to see musicians live (not just old dinosaurs that still do it) and it was affordable. Last concert I went to was to see other old dinosaurs like myself, but more importantly the price of each ticket was $209. I remember going to see Earth, Wind and Fire for $24. I also remember in that same week going out to a nightclub where where a local life funk band was playing and they were decent, price of entry $5. To put it all in perspective gasoline at the time was I think around $0.89 a gallon, in that same area a gallon of gasoline now costs $1.90 (46% more.) So if we go on a commodities scale a concert ticket should cost $35. It does not.

Also, in the U.S. especially on the Eastern seaboard megalopolis, it isn't always possible to find interesting live music, especially new live music. This mean all you get is studio music, or music made by the machine for the machine or heavily influenced by a large cities small music scene, etc.... There is somewhat of a live music world in country music, and you can hear that sometimes in musical quality of some peaces (it's not wall wall pasted over with vocals and you get some instrumental expression).... but more and more there is a lot of crossover and country music for the most part now is formula twadle as well... with wall to wall yhee haaaz and uoh uoh uohz.

Who is at fault, well the consumer is to blame or at least cite.... they are not going out for music unless they are at the meat market nightclubs and this is probably why you see a lot development in genera like EDM, but a lot less so in rock or other more traditional styles. Most of it is still shit... but there are some wonderfully constructed and musically interesting items that pop up every-once in a while.


Blah blha blhah....

If more people wanted it... it would happen and it is kind of sad that it doesn't but we can only blame humans cause the machine just wants money and if you can not feed it --- it attempts to feed itself. Playstation 5 game ($69,) Concert Ticket for the Weeknd in my local area ($150) for crappy seats, Concert Ticket for the Chainsmokers same area ($95.)

Put yourself in the shoes of the kids that have to spend that money at $35 it is for me a no-brainier and good value at a $100 it starts to get very selective as to whom I would see and who i would not see (my loss.) It isn't all artist greed either - the ticket distribution chains (ticketmaster in this case) and the venues are also taking a big cut, but regardless.... the numbers are what they are.

 

Roll your own Dolby D361A with the plugs you have.
No need for Acoustica or hardware or magic.
Anyone can do this vintage trick.

http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/bright-idea
"Try out some '80s-style high-frequency enhancement by recreating the famous 'Dolby A' trick with Cubase's bundled plug-ins."

 

Great Thread.

 

"Love is Alive" Isn't that such a great vocal performance? Killer! Every time I want the studio monitors to pump I pull that song out.

The last thing the producer reminded me was, "that band you love, they are fantastic musicians. You wouldn't be asking about it after all these years if it wasn't great musicianship. Yes, we had a good sounding room and gear but it always comes back to musicianship". Very true words.

OK, now the second best vocal recording I have ever heard. One of the first big sessions I worked on was for a great rock singer in a HUGE band! Well, he had decided to release a solo album. Sacrilege, I know, but what can you do. I'm seconding and the lead engineer, while not a household name, is very respected. A few of his albums are still used as reference cd's in studios. He's that good.

Cartage shows up and sets everything up in the main studio. Large room with everybody playing live. I set up gobos around all the musicians to lessen the leakage and begin micing the drums. We almost always used the same mic combination. RE20 on kick, 421 on toms, U67's for overheads, sm57 for snare.

I ask the engineer were he wants the overheads. "Six feet, eight feet or maybe not, I don't care. Come on, you know how to mic drums". OK. Drummer plays for about a minute, then the engineer comes out and angles the 57 down just a hair to pick up more crack. He heads back to the control room and a minute later, "OK, I'm done". I go into the control room and my jaw hits the floor. You can hear every nuance of every hit. WTH? I've seen videos of guys with rulers talking about the "Science" of micing drums. They might want to rethink that.

Bass is split, direct box and Ampeg fliptop amp. Guitar player I don't remember anything about and keyboardist in the control room.

The vocalist had written out a quick chord chart. Time to record! Drummer counts off, then about half way through the song the vocalist stops. "Move the bridge up by two bars. I think that will flow better". OK, count off again and they get to the end. "OK, thanks everybody, that's it" the engineer said. WTH? Cartage will be back at the end of the day.

They wanted to layer two more keyboard parts so two quick passes and their done. In the meantime the vocalist has challenged me at pinball and is beating me badly. Oh good, time for lunch.

After a long lunch, time to track vocals. I believe I used a U47. He had sung a scratch track but I decided to open the gobos up a little more around him and quickly reposition the mic height. Signal flow is U47 to Neve pre, to a LA2A compressor to a Studer two inch machine. Straight ahead right? Quick level check.

I sit down at the console but decide I needed a piece of gear from the tape room. We don't have to worry about this anymore but word to the wise, never go into a tape room during recording. If anything happens to the tape, guess who gets blamed haha. So the Studer is humming along, then stops. Rewinds and red light back on. Oh great, this will take the rest of the day I thought. Studer suddenly stops and starts rewinding at full speed. Oh man, I didn't even touch it. I run back to the control room and see the vocalist standing there. "Where have you been, were done" he said. I sit on the couch as they start playing the track back. Routing is the Studer to the Neve, LA2A on an insert. Roland Dimension D on a buss and a little reverb on another.

The vocals were full and fat and just leaped out of the speakers. What type of sorcery is this I thought? It sounded that incredible. So while I was in the tape room, the vocalist had done a perfect take straight through and then sang a harmony over the bridge, single take also. Unbelievable.

I later asked the engineer why he didn't do at least one more take and he said "Why? That was the perfect take. Sure he could sing it a hundred more times but that was the one". Some engineers are truly artist of the highest caliber and I was lucky enough to work with a few of them.

 

@julianbre
Had to comment to tell you this is one of the best posts in a while on AS.

 

Once again a personal thank you Von Steyr. The 361 "magic box" was a sound we always spoke about in whispered tones and with reverence at my studio. I think I will refer to it as the "Von Steyr effect" from now on haha.

Just got my 361 this morning. Will order the switches and then start the mods. Its actually in really good shape. This is how I plan to run it. U67 to a Neve mic pre and split the output. One side will go to the English compressor to the A\D. Other side to the 361 to the other English compressor to another A/D. During mixing I can control how much or little effect I want. UAD-140 plate for the reverb. Should get me really close. Might try an Aphex Expressor for the other compressor though. Another great "magic box". It will flatten out even the most unruly vocals with almost no compression artifacts. "I don't hear it doing anything" the skeptics say. Yeah, that's the "magic" to this box.

Ok, more tips: This is what I learned from the "audiophile" producers and engineers. These guys have the most depth and 3D imaging in their records. Something we all strive for. Andy Johns might do it another way, Max Norman different still. I'm just taking about these guys. We will put aside musicianship and room sound (sort of) for the time being and just focus on the recording techniques.

Tip #1 Simple (but good) recording chain. Usually a Neumann to a Neve mic pre to tape or Neumann to Neve to compressor to tape. That's it. Capture a great sound at the source and make sure it has a good and consistent level. Might seem like common sense but I have seen a lot of people not follow this rule.

Tip #2 Record everybody at the same time. We had a great large room and would surround each musician with gobos. Sure, lots of bleed but that's a big part of the sound. We also did very few punch ins. Maybe a bass lick here, guitar part there but that was it. Once again, great musicians.

Tip #3 Headphone bleed. This is along the lines of Tip #2 and one I always have to remind myself of. Nowadays everything is recorded so clean and quiet with perfect separation, hearing loud headphone bleed over in the Vocalist mic can be a little jarring. "I'll just notch that out and clean it up a little". Don't do it. That's part of the sound. In the mix you won't notice it but if you cut it out you will. Also, I have gotten into the habit of not cleaning tracks up much. Toms yes or if there is a serious problem I will fix it. The rest of the time, just leave it in there.

Tip #4 Compression and EQ. Less is more. Compression on inserts for instruments that need it (lead vocals, bass guitar), Buss compressors for the rest (drums on one, Background vocals on another). If they don't need it, don't use it.

For EQ, "Well I'll just notch this frequency -6db with a tight q point ...". Never. You won't have to. You did follow tip #1 didn't you? Didn't you? These guys use pretty gentle EQ settings. Occasionally use a Pultec EQ on the bass but usually just the board EQ on everything.

Effect: No real tips. The usual suspects. You can get away with having to use much less or even no reverb because of all the room ambience the mics are picking up.

OK, now for the rest of the story of recording the famous rock singer. We were only working on one song for this record. At the end of the first day, cartage shows up as I'm putting away all our microphones and cables. Then the fun begins. You get to jump up on a 3/4 of a million dollar console and take pictures of the settings with a Polaroid camera. This is what we called automation back in the day haha. Also pictures of the patchbay and any outboard gear if used. The reason is because if they decide they want to punch one part in, you can quickly get back to that sound. Then you pull all the patch cables and zero out the board.

Day Two: Time for mixing. Show up to the studio with fresh ears, drink some coffee and find out what the lead engineer wants to use. Ok, patch that in, thread the tape machine and we are ready to roll. That's about it! He's not having to struggle with gain staging because he followed Tip #1. Quickly dials up some (gentle) EQ settings. Adds a touch more compression to the vocals and pulls up the Dimension D because everybody loved it. "This song is very Beatle-esque, patch in the Fairchild for the snare". Done! Sounds fantastic. He starts talking more to the producer to see if he likes the mix and then the Vocalist to see if he wants anything different. After all, it's his music. More vocals, less vocals, anything you're not happy about? A few more eq tweaks and fader rides and that's it. It really sounds amazing.

Oh great, time for lunch. I've had some of my best meals at recording studios haha. After a long lunch we head back to the control room, play through the track twice more. Everybody approves. Time to mix down to the two track machine. Done!

Everybody shakes hands and says goodbye. I box up the tapes and have the secretary call a courier to deliver the two track to the label. Time for fun. As I'm standing on this huge Neve snapping away the photos I'm thinking "In less than two months, this song is going to be playing nonstop on every radio station in the country. People are going believe we spent weeks or even month struggling for our art to capture the perfect take and to get such amazing sounds".

These guys were some of the top pros. Sonically and musically this track was equal to or better than anything else out there at the time. They are that good at what they do. They're not going to waste one more minute of time if it's not what's needed for the song. Funny thing is, we probably spent about as much time eating and playing pinball as we did tracking and mixing.

Well that's about it. I did this for years and worked with some fantastic artist and producers. Later, I went on to open up my own large commercial studio but that's another story.

I know some will be disappointed but that's really how they do it. "He's holding out on us" the naysayer will bleat. I wish. I would love to think I was one of the lucky few to be bestowed with the secrets of great recording, and that I must guard them to my dying day. Haha. No, I would share any knowledge I can. "Well this is a thread about so-called Magic Boxes. You didn't mention any magic boxes" some will grumble. Yes I did. If you want a snare to sound like Ringo, put a Fairchild on it. If you want vocals to sound full and fat but still jump out of a mix, try a Rolland Dimension D. Want to crush a vocal but hear no compression, put a Aphex Expressor on it. All magic boxes and I have one last secret.

There is one magic box I haven't mention yet. This is the greatest magic box ever conceived! I am typing on it. Every single one of us has the most amazing invention right at our very fingertips. We have the ability to create any kind of music that comes to our minds. The ability to duplicate any sound, old or new. Sounds that in the past would have cost millions of dollars.

The question really isn't whether there are magic boxes. I think I have made my case. The question is whether you have enough belief in yourself to use your God given talents to the best of your ability. I believe you do! If I didn't, I wouldn't be typing this.

OK, this post has gotten way too long. Let's take some of the ideas we have talked about and put them to use.

Coming Up: Part 2 Let's mix a song!

 

@julianbre
Not only is this a great post, but you also have a great way of explaining it. Like we're good pals chumming it up. It almost feels like we're there.
Thank you

 

Writing about music is like dancing on architecture. You can talk all you like but without posting examples of songs we don't have any idea what you're referring to. What sounds good to you may sound like shit to others.

You talk about all that "simplicity". It sounds nice but it's just not real. I don't automate and use 5 compressors on a track because I want to complicate things, I do it because that's what the track needs. You talk as if each of us has access to the best gear, best musicians and best recordings. We don't. Which is why we sometimes need to do some heavy processing. You just can't compare the situations. The track I record in my bedroom with a cheap condenser and my crappy voice would never sound as naturally balanced as that of a great singer recording to a great mic in a good room. Completely different processes. Not that professionals don't do heavy processing - CLA does like to eq HEAVILY. Much more than +-6db. What applies to your particular genre of music (Classic Rock?) doesn't necessarily applies to others.

tl;dr those are some nice stories but they're irrelevant to most of us.

 

Did somebody wake up on the wrong side of the bed today? The lowdown of this fantastically informative relate is boiled down towards the end of it all when @julianbre exhales and utters, "There is one magic box I haven't mention yet. This is the greatest magic box ever conceived! I am typing on it. Every single one of us has the most amazing invention right at our very fingertips. We have the ability to create any kind of music that comes to our minds. The ability to duplicate any sound, old or new. Sounds that in the past would have cost millions of dollars." Everything much else was reminiscing about one day at one recording studio while working with a specific band and producer in the pursuit of one particular iconic sound. And then even sidestepping that entire entanglement, I don't feel as if the story is irrelevant to any person with an interest in audio recording, be it those into Trap or Tchaikovsky, dubstep to Charlie Daniels, ad nauseum. Stories such as these are remembered and are part of the greater rubric of information with which we sometime down the line can better make informed decisions based on a recalled storehouse of topic related knowledge. Our growth as artists and producers depends on every last bit of information that is available and that has osmosed into our minds to help enable us to react to a given situation instead of loosing the flow and actually begin superficially thinking. I prefer not thinking but rather just doing, being in the moment. And about what might sound good to one and shit to another in regard to quality of signal chain...probably not...unless someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

 

A really good, informative post! I'm pretty happy in that this reinforces a lot of my methodology that I use in the process of recording and mixing.
For example, I found while mixing down guitars I kept adding plug after plug trying to make them sound more powerful and real. I was using amp sims at the time because I felt that I didn't have a.) proper guitar cabinet mic technique b.) proper guitar microphones. And the sims got very, very close to what I felt I wanted. I had originally tried micing the cabinets and recording while the guitar player played and using the "shavering" technique to find the sweet spot of the cone, and the result was, I felt at the time, not very spectacular and kind of had a dead sound to it.
After constantly reading "guitar sims just aren't the same as air flow from a real cabinet" time and time again, I decided to take a stab at recording the cabs again. Except this time, I had the DI's from the guitarist to work with, and didn't even need the guitarist present to work on the sound (so when I told the guitar player to stop playing, he actually did because all I had to do was pause the transport)
This time, I was able to take care in mic positioning and really find that sweet spot. I also used more microphones as another production friend suggested using my ribbon mic as well.
When it came time to mix down, I tried re-using the effects chain that I had used with the amp sims minus the amp and cab simulators, and while it was better and more energetic, had some real problem areas as far as system translation.
So I stripped away the chain, used some sparse eq here and there, a tape sim, compression if the part was wildly dynamic and didn't need to be, and boom. There's that live, real guitar sound.
So in this case, less was more!

 

Im feeling the vibe in this thread

Great info allround

 

Yes, loving the honey toned nostalgia dripping over the insider tech hints and tips, here. More please!

 

Hello.
Nice thread. Good stuff.
It's not only about one country, is it? It's a global issue these days...
About the Acoustica D361, a giant 500MB plugin, I tried it out, and after tweaking it for a few hours, I gave it up. Too much sound alteration. These virtual sound equipment developers should focus more on developing useful stuff, like inteligent de-essers, super hi quality audio interfaces (how about 64/768, instead of 24/96... CDs are nearly 40, 24/96 is nearly 20, any progress în sight...?), etc, instead of emulating, say, an old NR board modified 30 years ago by a guy with pliers (I used to do that to a lot of gear myself...). Emulating "legendary hardware units" is a sure way of making money, by tricking the computer based musicians to feel like they are in a renowned studio. And they're not. Those studios and those equipments were made by people who had to get the most out of that time's technology. Well, now we have ten times the possibilities those guys had. But it takes 10 times more patience to master today's equipment's possibilities. And the easiest way to get a good sound seems to be... slamming some emulated units from five decades ago? You want those, go for the real thing. Or admit that the technology is better today - but still needs dedication and practice. What I am saying is that there's no shortcut for hard work. And getting a good sound IS hard work. Every digital equipment, especially daws and plugins, have their own sound and 'personality'. And, I hate to disappoint some people, not everyone can be a sound engineer. Many musicians do not have perfect pitch. But if you are a sound engineer, that is a must. If you cannot locate a sound's frequency within a reasonable range, like 100 hz at least, go with another job. After years of work, you must be able to reduce that under 10hz. About hearing - musical studies are required for top quality engineering. It's not only about a pair of keen ears, but also about the pumpkin between them, and the knowledge în it. Art is about proportions, mathematics, and many other things. As a famous musicians once put it, if you don't know, I can't tell you.
Since we got on memory lane, I remember my first "studio", many years ago, with all the gear built at home, burning my fingers with the soldering iron, and cutting wood planks with a hand saw. (Didn't improve my playing skills too much... ) I mastered the first comercial cd on a stereo amplifier with tba810's and my home-built monitors. Audio interface - the Realtek 662. And it did a great job. The amp's treble control needed a punch every now and then. That album went #2 of the year in my country, and best engineered album of the year. But I worked over 1000 hours on that, 10-12 hrs a day. I used to fall asleep wih my nose în the keyboard. And.. it payed off. And got ahead of studios worth millions. Go figure. But I loved it, and there was the vocal, a super female voice, one of the best in the world. I had goose bumps all over me at times. I miss those days. And, ever since, I stayed minimalistic with the 'workflow'. I don't use vsti's much, so I use win xp, a daw, a dae and three complex plugins, with whose developers I constantly argue about their minuses. Well, I need a 20-30 bands paragrahic, in one stage, with phase ctrl and everything, at.1 hz and 001 precision, because digital frequencies interact, masking and phase alterations occur. What about the dull, but so necessary de-essers and denoisers, that alter the sound? I now "de-ess" manually, each and one sybillant that's out of order, to keep the sound clear. Not to mention compressors. I would sincerely forbid those - they make bad musicians sound good, and good musicians sound bad.. So many musicians cannot control their voices or instruments... I worked a lot with classical instruments. No need for any compression there, just good mics and a precise eq. The rest is MAKING MUSIC by the respective musicians. That's why real musicians study 5-6 hrs a day, every day. And the limiters, the apocalypse of sound definition. "Industry standard"... agricultural standard, more likely. Loudness wars - who the heck won, 'cos the music certainly lost. Sound engineers now go to lo-fi sounds, because they lack any good ideas, and, due to bad musicians and heavy limiting, it will sound like crap anyway. A.s.o.
About plugins... I doubt there are more than five plugins I could use at any given moment. Fact is, If you stay with one setup long enough, you learn its finest nuances, and you may get some good stuff going, preferably something even better than our dads and grand dads got, in the golden age of hardware.. Let's use our gear today in a way that our grandchildren may look up to us just as we do when we look to a mr Studer, to a mr.Neve, or to a mr.Edison. And to countless anonymous guys with pliers, who shaped the world as we know it.

Make great music. Again, and again. And, hopefully, again.

Season's Greetings to all music lovers.

 

Last edited: Dec 11, 2016

Compression is not just about level/dynamic control. When it comes to the outboard equipment, and emulations of that gear it's also about adding harmonics and tone while compressing. Even if it's just light compression which is what I tend to use them for. You just can't get the same thing by saturating or equalization. They don't move with the music like the hardware and emulated compressors do.
From what I've read here and in the post about setting up compressors as a D361A emulation, that should move with the track as well. I'm going to try to set that up, but use something that will sweeten the harmonics a little just for comparison to the Acustica D361A.
From my limited experience, the addition of the harmonics really helps with translation to small speaker systems such as PC and phone speakers. The brain fills in the non reproduced frequencies to an extent because the harmonics are there.

Really want to keep this post alive!

 

Nice

 

type2002n, no the title was just a play on words haha. I listen to everything.

OK, let me touch on a few things briefly:

#1 The greatest bands used a Neve and Studer to record your favorite records. Like I said, that is a myth. That the large frame Neve's and Studer's were the apex of audio design is not a myth. That's why everybody tries to emulate them. If those bands could have afforded them or they were available, they would have used them. If we are talking about dance or pop music, just substitute an SSL. End of story.

#2 "In the real world I might have to use Five compressors to tame a vocal..."
I hope you are exaggerating things to make a point. If not, you need to seriously rethink your recording technique. I will occasionally use two compressors with gentle settings on each to get a very compressed sound with no artifacts. If there was a Aphex Expressor plugin you could use just one for the same effect.

The end results always reflect on you. If these are clients sending you tracks, explain the problems and have them re-record them. If they won't, pass on working with them. It's not being picky, it's called being a Professional.

#3 But but but... what about CLA. I've never really studied CLA's work, always preferred Tom Lord Alge, but let's look at what he's doing. Well, He's not EQing to make up for lost frequencies in a bad recording, He's trying to make drums sound un-natural. "Larger than life". I can immediately think of two reasons not to do it this way, phase coherency and comb filtering. That's why everybody is so surprised. Also, I don't believe he is doing this to any other instruments. Only the drums. CLA likes very exaggerated eq settings, good for him. That's his thing. He is a great producer and I personally like his drum sounds.

Here is an exercise I love to do in the off hours. Pick out a sound, find out what gear they used and try to duplicate it. The old joke is "Bonham sound? sure no problem. I'll just put a 1176 on the overhead buss. The same way Andy Johns never did it". I don't mean in the ballpark. I mean so close it sounds just like a second take of the part. Be self critical and really nail it. You might never use that sound but it will keep your chops up.

OK, on to those pesky reference cd's:

#4 "What sound good to you might not sound good to me". Wrong. If you think "Kid N Play" records are the sonic pinnacle for audio recording in the last 50 years, here are a couple of tips for you. #A Never tell anyone and #B seek out an audiologist.

Believe it or not, there actually is a consensus in the industry on what a good or even great record should sound like. A reference or "audiophile" quality. Search around and you will find many articles with leading producers listing their favorites. You might be surprised how often the same ones keep appearing. That's why they are the standard.

I am a classically trained musician, that's my background. One of my Professors told me that after the first week, you will never listen to music the same way as the average man, woman or child on the street. Recording I learned by watching great Producers work. I found that same principle holds true. As an engineer, you will listen to music differently than the average person or even other musicians. A third way, as it were. This would be a fantastic topic to discuss further, I just don't have the time.

#5 Reference CD's are genre specific. No no no.
Look, I would much rather be listening to Schenker's solo on the live version of "Lights Out in London" or the Phasing cymbals of Bonham in "Kashmir" but I have a record to mix. I need to find out any deficiencies in the monitor system. Maybe half the albums I would listen to are of other genres than the music I'm mixing.

#6 "Well let's hear theses amazing CD's! Now! I'm super serious!"
OK, I am too. These are just three tracks I have come across through the years and still enjoy using to this day. One winner, two honorable mentions. Only listen to these as wav or flac, never mp3!

(Track 1) Peter Gabriel "Sledgehammer". One of the "King of the Hill" picks in studios for decades. If your monitors aren't thumping with this one, you will know how to mix around them. If it sounds flat and lifeless, replace the monitors!

(Track 2) Jude Cole "Start the Car" produced by the great James Newton Howard. Classic Slick West Coast blue eyed soul. Always my first choice. The only way I discovered this one was I kept seeing it as a reference cd in studios. Listen to the drums and crack of that snare! This one never fails to surprise me at how good it is.

Last but not least:
(Track 3) Fine Young Cannibals "Good Thing". Yeah, I know, I know. I can hear what you're saying about this one. I actually felt dirty buying the cd. "Do you have any Metallica?" I barked at the clerk of Tower Records as I meekly purchased this. Modern take on a classic sound. Not as common as the first two but I like it. Arguably one of the worst guitar tones to ever disgrace tape but we will let it slide just this one time. Don't know who wrote or produced it. Wish I had.

"This is all music from the eighties. I hate the eighties and I hate these songs and I don't think I even like you". Well, this is the era of big budget record contracts, large frame consoles and multiple tape machines. Really the height of the recording industry. I never said these are my favorite listening songs. That's another list and I'm sure you would disprove of them as well. I don't care.

Only now would I pull out something like "Back in Black" or albums closer to the style of music I am mixing. I now know the strength and weaknesses of the system I am about to mix on and can act accordingly. As an added bonus, by now I am in a pretty good mood. Come on, "Good Thing" by FYC does make you smile?

I had started to write a long follow up to my previous post but had to stop. I could tell you hundreds of stories about working at some of the classic studios back in the day (as well as many bad studios), but you know, that work was all part of my past. Sure I'm proud of it but I never get nostalgic or miss it. Time to put those stories back in their box and put them on the shelf.

To wrap thing up:
Just think about it, We live in a time when good gear is so plentiful and cheap it boggles the mind. Chose your tools wisely, keep your recording process simple and listen to some good music. That really is it.

I had wanted this post to be inspirational and motivational and am happy to see some people here pick up on that. Now go out there and rediscover what made you fall in love with music in the first place.

Goodnight!

 

Last edited: Dec 10, 2016