An amazingly talented individual Dudley was without a doubt but how beautiful is the music of Burt Bacharach?
Who writes music like that anymore?
A feast for the ears!
Wish I could turn on the radio and hear such sweet chord progressions and melody again.
Sorry to be off topic

 

How insightful. Why don't you contact Udemy and propose a tutorial, they seem to just love to sell that kind of "knowledge".

 

As a drummer, I pan them the way I have/hear them as I play (hat left, ride right, tom1 at ten to and tom2/3 at quarter past, etc).

Some people pan them as they see the drummer on the stage, but IMO that's somewhat fucked up because usually the drum podium is quite far from the crowd fence, so the panning isn't that extreme (it's more like "mono" compared to sitting at the actual kit).

 

Last edited: Nov 18, 2016

I always pan them about a quarter of the way right, then the shaker or tambourine (unless it's accenting the snare, then it's just a bit off-center) a quarter of the way left to counter-balance it. And like I said in my previous post, I put the crash hard right. Of course, that makes no sense, since the hats should be on the other side, but I'm used to drum machine/keyboard drum panning (and many songs I grew up with follow suit), and that's the way it's always been laid out.

 

It sounds like you're there, great music btw, sounds even better with a glass of whiskey in your hand. But regarding the hi-hats, I personally don't like much how they are 'positioned', maybe is just about taste but listen to the rest of the drums it sounds wider than the hats, and in this cases I think I prefer them that way.

 

A few people don't even bother mic'ing the hats anymore and just take it from the overheads, which is where you get a more ambiguous direction on the sound. In a Glyn Johns four-mic setup, everything is based around the stereo mics except the kick and the snare.

 

i always pan it up, left or right so damn standard

 

I like drummers perspective, it doesn't really matter in the end, as long as you don't mix up and your OH are panned one way when you HH is panned the other. Been down that road, egg on face is an understatement.

 

It probably doesn't even matter -- I've heard hats placed every which way and it's never distracted me from the music, so long as the music itself is decent and the mix is solid. A great song with a decent mix usually keeps you from noticing the small details. A lot of times, I'll be mixing something and A/B roll a commercial mix I've heard a hundred times before realizing how it was mixed (case in point: it wasn't until well into the Nineties that I realized every Van Halen album up to "5150" only had one rhythm guitar track, always panned left, or in the case of "1984", that rhythm guitars were panned left and keyboards were panned right -- it always sounded normal to me).

 

I usually pan like I'm in front of the drummer, watching them. That's the way most of the general population hears a live kit, so that's what I decided to do. Hats should be just a smidge to the right of the snare for a right handed drummer.
I don't think it really matters, though, as there are left handed and right handed drummers which would change the layout of the kit.
I've been using the Glen Johns method on most of my tracking so far, and I really like the space it creates. When coupled with the direct mics, I really like the ambience it creates. this sort of sets the highhat in the mix as far as panning goes. I haven't direct mic'd the hats yet. I usually don't have issue with them coming through in the mix unless I don't have levels correct.
Just my two cents.

 

Just go wild.

 

How exacting are you in keeping the overheads equidistant from the snare? I like the GJ method also but include a room mic if the drums are in their own room, squishing the b'jesus out of it and blending it in to taste. I haven't recorded drums in a looooong time and I miss the fun of getting the best sound out of the room/kit/drummer.

 

hello I pan it on the right, as from an audience listening
the kit is obviously panned accordingly, as for bright guitars on the left, dark ones on the right and so on
in some virtual drum like Toontrack the hat is panned left, so I pan and mix everything accordingly
it doesn t really matter at the end, for me, if left or right

 

You must become the hi hats! Don't think, feeel

 

I actually measure, but not to the exact millimeter. If it's off half an inch or so, I'm good with that, but more than an inch and I'll adjust. I think as long as it's close, you still get good phase relationships with everything.
I haven't used a room mic on any of my drum tracks. After getting the HD192, I thought "I'll never be recording ALL 12 inputs." Drummer added a few more toms, and after trying to catch the bottom of the snare, guess what? we're at 12. Luckily, we've also got another MOTU interface with 8 inputs so I may actually test out getting a room mic in the next set of tracks we do because I was thinking about micing the hats too.
What arrangement do you use for the room mic? I was thinking stereo pair on far left and far right of the kit from the front. Or maybe the crossed x/y arrangement.

 

"we're at 12" Ha!
@digitaldragon .. It all depends on the characteristics of the room, but definitely large diaphragm as opposed to small (even dynamic mics can work if need be) as I would generally not be looking to enhance the transients of the cymbals but rather looking to define the depth of the space. Figure 8 mics can be of benefit in my mind because they put the back wall into play. Although you might have over 12 mics to choose from it would be maddening to use all of them in the mix. It is good to have choices, but the phase issues alone could drive one to drink. And just like anything else, listening to hear what sounds best, be it x/y or a spaced pair makes the most sense, again in context of the room. Plus when listening to the room mics just listen to the room mics. They should sound the best that they can be by themselves before they get mixed in.

 

@superliquidsunshine, I'll have to try each out. I was thinking I might try using the DR-40 as the XY pair. It's got pretty good mics on it, and I think the preamps in it would be fine if I can route the output audio through to the recording interface. I'm thinking about it because I don't have another matched pair not in use while recording drums. Poor people have poor ways!
I've unfortunately only got one figure 8.

 

Using the DR-40 is true MacGyver shit, kudos for thinking if it! To make it easy don't even bother to route it. Just dump the recording later and line it up by eye. It will save you cables which you might not have enough of, or the ones that are the last to be used because they might be...shitty. If you have that figure 8 mic free you could maybe find another cardioid and try a mid/side as the room. Squish it, slam it with all buttons in on an 1176 plug in and add to taste. What would MacGyver do as a ninja engineer warrior? Are you in Europe? If you are I could send you some microphones since you are short. I have a few that I never use so they are at your disposal...Brother!

 

Now this is something I didn't think of! Awesome suggestion!
As for recording into the DR-40 instead of taking the output and recording that, I guess my concern would be if the clock varies from the MOTU by some degree. I don't suppose it "should" by a great amount, but at any rate, the cabling required would be from the line out on the DR-40 which would be 1/8" headphone into the 1/4" in on the board so I should be fine that way. Good suggestion though! If cabling was an issue, I would give that a shot.
Definitely appreciate the offer on the microphones! I am in the US, though. That's a super nice thing to do, Brother!
I do have three Sennheiser cardioids I could try, an 835, an 845 and a 935.


The 835 (Dynamic cardioid)


The 845 (Dynamic super-cardioid)

and the 935 (Dynamic cardioid)


I'm thinking the 835 and the 845 might be the better pairing since they both have that 5K bump and the curve is very similar except for the where the high end rolls off. If it's primarily the "air" I'm after, though, maybe the 835 and 935 would be the better pairing?

 

@digitaldragon .. I would opt for the 935 as it is the higher quality of the three that are left over for your choice of mid microphone. About five years ago I had used a variety of the lower 800 series and wasn't very impressed with their ability to capture detail, if I remember so correctly. I think there is still an 835 in a drawer here somewhere...no...I gave it to my daughter for her diva vanity singing microphone prop. Now I remember, she and her cousin dropped it and dented the grill within the first five minutes of their "stardom"! LOL I tested it and it still works though.