With reverbs, I was able to hear what exactly was going on as it affected tone, and depth/dimension in the mix. The more I worked with it, the more the adjustments made sense, when it was too much or too little, when to use a long tail vs small room, etc.

I'm having a little more difficulty with the delays deciding when to use what, and why use a delay here or there instead of a reverb. Obviously special effects like repeated words in a vocal, or a nice delay tail to a guitar passage are relatively simple to spot and implement. I'm talking about situations where the fix would be to use a delay. Maybe some examples of those situations and what the fix would be with a delay can provide me some guidance here.

What would be the deciding factors between:
Slap back (1 echo) vs several repeats
Delay time as relates to the material, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, etc.

I was working with a guitar track last night. I had two different tracks where I had used different mics to record the cabinet. I panned them hard left, and hard right respectively looking for some stereo separation. Didn't seem to be enough. So I put a delay on the rightmost track as an insert, and set it so essentially all it did was move the track forward a few milliseconds in time. What I noticed was that it separated the track better, but it also sounded as if the vertical direction of the guitar changed. Is that an example of what I should be trying to achieve using delays on a bus send as well?

I've posted this before in a request for delay plugins, but thought this needed a thread of it's own.

 

almost opposite to you, i always stuggle with reverb settings. im no expert on delay, but i find it much easier than reverb.

will find it really interesting to see what other members have to say on this tho.

 

I'd say it depends on application. I never perceived a delay as an audio engineering tool, but as a soundshaping effect. In that regard I use delays especially to support arpeggios or build interesting pluck sequences.
Of course, I know it is used a lot on vocals (4th delay) to thicken its appearance and ping-pongs with short delay times can greatly expand the stereo field, but that's second class application for me.

I would be interested to hear from those that are more into audio engineering than sound sculpting, what purposes it serves them.

 

ITB I use a plug to push my double guitars wider. Brainworx shredspread.

The slapbacks delays I would use on vocals when I'm going for a vintage sound.
The only time that I use it as a tool instead of creatively is to micro shift one side of the signal. to give it a wider effect as you tried with your double miced guitar

 

Last edited: Nov 11, 2016

I like using delays on drums to get weird tribal rhythms. If you fine tune the velocity on every other hit you can get some pretty realistic hand-drumming.
I also use it for effects. A little delay turns this simple as f*ck bass line
https://clyp.it/yaducrd5
into something like this
https://clyp.it/bswe3gpa

 

It's an artistic decision.

Any opinion is a valid opnion since thats what you percieve.

Try

http://www.voxengo.com/product/sounddelay/

Instead. It's FREE like MySQL. Set it to dual mono mode, and delay 2-10 samples. This would give you finer control over the width.

iirc, all it does, is a simple stereo width control. It won't make very thin guitars much wider in my expereince.

BTW: Reverb is an accumulation of many delays.

 

Last edited: Nov 12, 2016

Finely spaced delays that fill in as many gaps in time that it can so that one cannot hear the space between, sort of a solidification of time...I guess.

 

Nice one bro \m/ I too use this plug for guitar width its the most natural sounding for guitar often if ive only got 2 up close dry guitar tracks to work with ill pan them 80 to 90 % left and right not the usual 100% send to a bus add a lil short delay,verb,or guitar Ambience on a send then Use the Shredspread pushem out more on the guitar bus sounds awsome really fills it out if im recording the guitars myself i get 4 tracks per guitar DI,Roomsound,Ribbon mic up close an a 57 up close ... then i spread>>> 57 mic 100 >>> Ribbon 85 >>> room mic 70 >>> i bring up the 57 mics all the way then blend in the Ribbon and room mics to taste till i get the WALL of SHRED ;)

 

Last edited: Nov 12, 2016

Great insight into delay by Kenny not limited to Reaper.

 

Love kennys reaper and mixing tutorials.

 

Yea awesome tutorials.

 

Yeah, Im still learning. Completely 100% panned left and right into shredspread set at about 120% spread and I lost my gtrs when I summed the mix to mono. I tried a couple different things. I ended up making a mono submix of the rhythm gtrs and blended it back in. I have no idea if that's how it's supposed to be done but that's what made sense to me at that time . Didnt think to try lowering the pan to 80 or less before shredspread or put it on a return. Some things to try out next time.

 

Last edited: Nov 15, 2016

Minus Shredspread and the room mics, this is my method 100%. Rather than room, I put sends to a room verb, panned 75% opposite to the track pan, pretty high. Higher than I would do drum, bass or vocal track. My room sucks which is why I don't use a room mic.

 

Just use a sucky mic to pick up your sucky room. If the both sucky exponentially (here is the magic) we know that two negatives multiplied produce a positive. Your guitars will sound absolutely freaking georgeous. Trust me*.











*not really.

 

I wish I had 2 figure 8 mics. Don't want to not use the ribbon for the up close as that's where the chunk comes from. But would be interested to hear the ribbon turned sideways in the room... IF the room didn't suck! Maybe a stereo pair...

 

What precisely about your room sucks?

 

Use this: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-bpmtempotime.htm

 

I use this: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fxbox.noteconverter&hl=en
In the event that spacebar tap isn't available in the plugin. Looks to be a very nice website, though!

I suppose the bedroominess of it, haha! Seriously, though. When I was tracking, I wanted to use a small room since I'd be using that in the mixes reverb-wise. Though the drums are tracked in a large room. I ended up moving the cabinets into a smaller room with a door to help cut external noise from refrigerators, a/c units, and the DAW PC cooling fans. If I decide I really need to mic the room, I suppose I'd have to move all of the furniture, knick knacks, etc. out of it temporarily to record, and then move it back in afterward to prevent injury by wife.
Close micing allows me to be lazy in that regard, I suppose. Also, it is not treated at all. Except the bed.
Nothing to see here... room is all as it was...

 

I am lucky to have a room for my thing that I don't have to share with any other member of the family, and though it is not classically treated, I have been able to keep tame the sound and causing havoc by putting up a few hanging rugs about an inch from the wall, a few bits of furniture, a bookcase and of course the bed that does a tremendous job as I can easily put the light mattress vertically up against a 4 foot wide floor to ceiling glass door that does a tremendous service. A very heavy old quilt covers a plastic euro pallet high up in one wall to add an extra bit of sound kill. There are rugs on the floor and a couple of meter long triangular acoustic foam bass eaters in a couple of corners.There are about 8 feet of acoustic guitars so I take them out (most haven't their own case) to keep down the sympathetic resonance when I sing loudly. It is a fairly dead sounding room, not quite as dead as an elevator fitted with moving blankets or an anechoic chamber but heads in that direction. It is about twice as long as wide so I tend to record mostly with one mic using distance to convey length and placement in the sound field within the mix to convey width. Reverts take care of the gelling. You gotta do what ya gotta do to keep on keepin' on down that crazy road. I always ask my neighbors if my playing and singing bothers them, and even at night they say that it doesn't, so the deadness works all around for all of us. I guess.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2016

Thats funny. When I first started recording in 2010 I did the same thing All the rugs went into the kitchen with all the couch cushions on the counters. Pillows stacked in the corners, blankets stretched across open cabinets, and then we sealed you in there with a mattress over the entry way. With the mr coffee frap machine my gf at the time bought for me within arms reach. Good times. Got some decent enough recordings out of it too.
We used to put the fridge and freezer on the coldest setting beforehand and unplug them while recording. Once we left and forgot to plug it back in. The solution? Car keys in the fridge
Here was the result

Nothing special, AT4040 into a cheap (moded) tube preamp with some nectar on it.
I was actually thinking about making a booth out of old mattresses, then realized how disgusting that would be to be shuttered in. I miss making hiphop beats and recording. The friends I was working with are very talented at their craft. This was about the time I was given my street name, Mikey Thai lol

 

Last edited: Nov 15, 2016