When a sample library costs nearly 1/3 the price of the real thing, with only 12 velocity levels "the real thing has 127" you're asking too much in my opinion. & convenience plays little to no factor with rack-mount sound modules "especially old school niche ones". I'm not asking for anything here so don't get this post twisted. I'm only pointing out why I "try before I buy". Because of A-holes like this guy. His library isn't even officially licensed w/Native Instruments. He threatens "on his Facebook page" to ban your IP if he finds out you use pirated Kontakt.... Honestly, I hope all of his work gets dumped on the sister site someday just in spite of his reply about the "possibly of raising his prices". What a dick.
​

 

So he's arrogant. May have had a bad day. I just thought about my own behaviour, if I made a sample library (takes a lot of time and equipment) and then people would only comment to get it cheaper. Well, I wouldn't turn into an arrogant ass, but certainly would be annoyed.

There's a product and a price. If you like the product for the price, buy it, else don't buy it. I'm not sure why you think it is ok to use the library for free just because you don't agree with the price? Yeah, I know, I suck. But honestly, I'm not talking about warez (or their usage) per se, just the justification you bring up for using them!

 

Low-balling himself? They told him to raise the price because he was undercutting them, probably by a significant amount.
That or he got greedy seeing that an extra $10 would be a significant increase in revenue for an independent developer.
At some point in time (right after completing work on the library, I assume) HE set that price HIMSELF as adequate compensation for the work he had done, yes? Digital music has become the new movie industry. You can make a mediocre product but package it up looking nicer than it is and than cause hell for anyone who wants to return it. Ever try to return a movie ticket? Now try to return a bad sample pack.
All that crap is non-refundable.

"Gospel musicians are unfortunately very cheap and they don't understand the value of products."
Way to alienate your core demographic, guy.

Lucky for you, Jesus is NEVER ashamed to be associated with anyone.

@Moogerfooger I feel your frustration, man. This digital age has brought with it virtual swindlers. No offense to VGSoundtrackGuy. He may have tried his best and I can't fault him for that. The look of that website should be everyone's first and biggest clue.

 

He does seem quite arrogant, but there is 62GB of samples, so must have taken some time to do.

Saying that he priced it at $90 to help struggling musicians and then dissing his target audience by saying "gospel musicians are unfortunately very cheap" is pretty out of order though, especially as you have not asked for it for free as he is implying. Sound like a bit of a disingenuous statement to me. He may have had a bad day, but definitely shouldn't let that affect his professionalism in terms of his company's customer service.

Noticed that he is slightly misleading too advertising them on his site as VST instruments, whereas admittedly he does explain they are Kontakt full version libraries too but may trick someone vulnerable into thinking they are VST instruments.

 

You won't blame him for doing what every producer of a product, from vegetables to cars, does, will you? You, as the producer of your work, are the only one who can seriously calculate a price.

If you are not living behind the moon, you know beforehand that you can't get refunded. I wouldn't blame the creator of the library for it.
I know this one is an arrogant ass, but I once was interested in Audulus (also a single guy with no business at that time. I asked for a demo, that didn't exist. I then explained that I need to make sure it runs on my old pc, before buying it. Result: He offered me to buy the full version and get refunded if I'm not pleased. It turned out that the vst was working, but the standalone not. I returned it and got refunded within an hour (on a sunday!). If people only would talk to each other politely, a lot more would be doable.
Also, 60 GB, each note sampled with and without chorus, 12 velocity alternates per note! Even the very good Addictive Keys Grand Piano doesn't offer that much micro-detail. I wouldn't call it a mediocre product. And it also can't be that mediocre if Mooger is interested in it, but just doesn't want to pay the price.

Don't judge a book by its cover! You would buy a lot of crap if you'd really go by the appearance of a website.

 

wow... I remember the early 90's....

you ain't kidding.. now i feel like the guy really needs your $90 to hire a good site dev.....
( if he isn't even going hungry for sammiches that is )

 

This guy is the one who worked and produced this library therefore he's the one to ultimately decide of its value. Right or wrong, this is capitalism: The seller decides of the price he wants to offer his goods.

Is the library worth 90 $? Maybe yes, maybe no. But you can't argue with him about the price like if you were in a market and he's selling some potatoes. Consider for example Spitfire or Spectrasonics: Anyone would ever consider discussing the price requested for any of their libs? Well, at least it's unheard of.

Just because he's a very small business (compared to Spectrasonics and co) doesn't mean we have to unrespect him by starting to argue about the price. Nobody would ever do that with any of the big ones, so why with him? Oh and yes, don't tell me that it's permitted to argue since his product is subpar because it's not a valid argument.

Even if his library was priced 400 $ instead of 90 $, there's no point to argue WITH HIM. You could always think that it's too expensive and then decide not to buy it but ultimately, he owes you nothing and he's the one to decide of the value of his work.

As of the look of his website, well I admit it looks like we are back in 1996 but it doesn't matter if his library is good. He will catch up with a professional web designer later.

On a side note, I'm wondering if this lib is compressed to 60 GB with NI lossless format or if it's really 60 GB of WAV files. Anyway, it doesn't matter for this discussion.

 

I can feel the lord's light just by reading his saintly words

Hail jesus

 

Completely agree with you. The guy just ticked me off a little...

 

it's the free market... just like people who complain about u-he.... vote with your pocketbook...
as if you don't have enough EP's already?

that being said.. this will probably be appearing at a "try before buy" site sometime in the near or remote future anyway
so pay up.. or wait

 

I feel compelled to point out that, while everyone is commenting about the free market and the price being fair, my takeaway from this post is that guy is an irredeemable douche. Bad day my ass. That's his personality. This is the same guy who threatens to ban his own customers for pirating a VSTi from one of the biggest developers in the business.

 

@Pinkman...

no doubt!! that website looks like complete dump. I heard about this guys "amazing" samples... I went to his site, and was surprised how generic and old it looks.


But no question, these sample companies put a cool picture/design/graphics on the cover, and it always manages to slither into our psyche... and somehow we think the sounds will match the dope looking graphic.

P>S> pictures of hotchics in futuristic sunglasses actually do DISSERVICE to your company... at least according to my wallet... or Peeplink history :D

 

Finding it hard to see how he was being a dick?
He did say "not at this time"... so by christmas it may be on sale? Guy also replied with a decent amount of info.

As for his price reply, you did start it off with the 80, 90 and next 100 remark. Wishing his product gets ripped over a $10 price increase is being a little sensitive.

 

you don't like him therefor you dl here? or no, you find the price to high? ...
if its available grab it if you want it, but starting discussions trying to somehow make weird mixed up "excuses" for the whys and don'ts for downloading it is pretty pointless.

 

Capitalism isn't about the wish of the seller, for the price tag at least. Well it depends on the market. If you're on a market where you have a lot of opponents (and I mean on kontakt libraries, talk about saturated market) and not that much of a demand it doesn't seem very wise (or capitalistic) to sell your product at a overly high price. Not unless you are a settled company which can count on its reputation (like spectrasonic) and sell way too expansive common products. This guy probably isn't in that situation, and he won't go far in his business.
Free market doesn't mean the seller does whatever he wants and the buyer doesn't negociate (I negociate price reduction with any company I deal with, specially the big ones), it means the balance of demand and offer settles the price. At least on paper.

 

usually you only get a discount by buying in volume.. even with Sweetwater..if you are spending a couple grand with them
they will usually knock $100 or more off the total.. you can ask at any time.. but also be prepared to hear "no"
and be prepared to walk away from the deal if it's not at a justifiable price point for you...

I tried it with Soundtoys recently... I asked directly .. I had one license, and asked for the discounted bundle they had on
offer.. no dice.. ok no problem.. I said ok I'll wait for Christmas to see if you offer the freebie licenses again..
and then buy your plugs next year.. if you offer the deal again.
.

getting upset at what you perceive to be douchebag business practices isn't going to change anything
except maybe your blood pressure !

if a business person is in fact a douche.. then the market will eventually punish him...

you don't like what this guy is charging? wait till you need a lawyer someday !

 

Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2016

Yes and no. The price is supposedly determined by the meeting of sellers and buyers but this is theory. Nothing prevents him to fix a price higher than the one determined by the market even if it might be kind of suicidal.

Can you please provide some specifics?

 

Heh, yea right..."This mafioso guy came into my office, really big, fat guy, told me i have to raise the price or else..." So i had to do it.Not my fault.

 

Bit like saying a customer should name their price or people should charge less than the cost to produce things. only they know what their costs are and if they can afford to drop prices they might if market dictates.
Move on and say thanks but no thanks.

 

I feel bad now.
Maybe I was too harsh.
For all I know he could have started this project in 1992.