Over the last few months I have been studying music production alone in the Sonoran Desert... No distractions but the cactus and my own thoughts. I have been learning many different ways of mixing techniques in Ableton from gain staging every track to other peoples opinions of mixing loud. I see benefits to both of these approaches and it just feels like each Mix I do, I do differently and sometimes it turns out well and sometimes not.. I really need to get my mixing fundamentals down. Is it better to 'mix loud' or set every sample/audio at -8 for kick -10 for guitars fx -12 for hhats upper frequency instruments etc. And try to hit -6 rms in the mixdown, then limit.

 

I am far from an expert but it goes like this for me. I mix low my 2bus is only maxing -15 to -18 rms before mastering. Everything is gain staged properly. I start my kicks at -8 and then build around that but not using any chart to tell me what to set faders at. I use my ears. After Im done I usually end up shaving around another -5 dB on the group buses to get it down in-between -15 to -18rms. The headroom gives me more room to work in my fake attempt at mastering and limiting. I can push the emulations harder to get more character out of them. Does this make sense? I could be doing it all wrong too.
And here's the important part. There is no set mastering chain. Its knowing your plugins and what kind of color/character they bring to the mix and using them to get what you want. I'll kiss it with some tape, tube, and or transformer flavor in this stage depending on what I want to do, and the genre. Then after I get it where I want, I use the limiters to make it loud.

You have to realize that those tutorials aren't set in stone and just take whats good from them.

 

Last edited: Oct 15, 2016

I mix low, with a software VU meter calibrated at -18 dBfs. My peaks rarely go above 0 on the meter. That way, I can try different mastering plugins on the way out and I don't compromise at all in the loudness department. One benefit I've gotten to see by mixing this way: I use Waves SSL G compressor since the start of the mix and it sounds better with gain staging aimed at -18. That's how it gels my mix from the get-go. I've just started this practice from reading a very informative Sound On Sound article on mix-bus compression.

 

He He
When i hear you guys reffering to dbfs and kicks set to a certain db level/ and then build the track round that also with elements at certain db levels,
I feel like such an ametuer on a Daw...
I try so hard to not red line "im oversimplifiying i know" my wholemix in general
Though im into dnb or hard house etc so theres the loudness wars issue "i try to avoid"
But still im very often either too loud overall or too quiet...
But what you guys are saying makes absolute sense, and i too have read various articles about the mix process but successfully implementing them can be a different story..
I just trust my ears despite seeing redlining in any tracks "a habit im trying very hard to stop"
Then i gotta push the levels back down with a good peak limiter n comp
Sounds real odd i know
But i think im defo gonna have to try out the initial methods you guys discussed as i get quite frustrated and obviously it affects my workflow.
And more importantly the end result!
Thanx for some good tips/advice!!

 

Me too, I mix into the ableton/cytomic glue (another ssl emu) with just a touch of reduction -1 to -2 dbs, but lets not open that can of worms here.

 

Ill make mine short and sweet lol... In the Analogue world there's alot of noise so mixing hot as possible is pretty common but then again gain staging is too ;) ITB well with bits of 24 an recording and 32 floating points the noise floor is pretty much eliminated>>>> so my advise is with clean digital sounds is to give yourself headroom for your master channel but really its all up to you and your ears to determine if it sounds good or not ;) Ive seen what you would call Pro guys clip the hell out of channels mixing all the time ;) Doesnt mean its the right thing to do but like i said use your ears \m/ EDIT>>> I wanted to add that their is really no good reason to mix really loud with High Bit recordings today and yes i Gain stage alot of time for most mixes . Ive also mixed/mastered at the same time with commercial loudness from start to finish was a must for time \m/

 

Last edited: Oct 15, 2016

Just Turn up all levels set back a watch it clip !!! lol

 

Do a test to your final format... MP3. Make your choice about headroom levels after encoding to MP3

A full 1db of headroom sounds a lot better to me than going any closer to clipping before encoding.

Try it for yourself in a scientific way and choose for yourself what sounds better. Same goes with any advice you get on here or from youtube or anywhere else. Set up conditions where you can isolate variables and make the choice based on your own ears.

 

Did you watch that CLA tute? He had tracks and busses cliping all over the place! He just turned it down on the master chain.It was driving me nuts. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

Not seen any of that but i believe it lol... Man i know some guys do this all the time cause they 've always done it like that using a console an their veiw of it is if it still sounds good then its ok lol... Ive had a few channels clipping on a few past mixes and just ignored them because it sounded better than if i used a limiter to stop it ;) For me tho i stay in the safe zone from the start>>> all Faders @ 0 an depending on how hot the tracks are ill trim off -6 to -10 with my gain befor i ever touch a fader ... Then Ill listen and find the basic balance of the volume/pans for it. Then setup bus an sends an on to the Master Fader... Now i take a break an make a beer run After all thats in order i turn on Master Comp set and Dive in BTW>>>You aint missing nothin bro ! keep doin what you do the way you do it man \m/ We aint any different man ! Ive said this for many years ive mixed some good mixes and ive had my bad and most of my bad mixes was shitty source's ;) My best mixes are the ones that start off with killer songs with killer sounds... The Best of the Best cant turn a shitty song into Gold its not possible... Just like they say you can polish a turd but its still just gona be a shinny turd in the end \m/

 

Last edited: Oct 15, 2016

Oh, yes. Some people swear by mixing into a compressor and others dread it. I'm just getting to grips with it. It's working my way so far.

I guess we'd be missing top notch converters above our budget. Do that in a consumer grade interface and those overs *might* get nasty sounding.

 

This leads me to my next question... I should post a thread but I don't want to anger the audioz gods.. The question is, If I found a High end studio here in Phoenix.. What exactly am I looking for, and how do I use it to increase the quality of my mix. We are not talking about my skill level or anything but lets just say its average. What expensive hardware can help my mix as opposed to mixing in the box? There has to be something or else why would some of these studios cost a mil ya know.

 

I think what he does is to listen to a channel, boosts the shit out of the main frequency he thinks makes it sound right and compresses it fairly steeply, does it again and so on and on down the line with the busses he creates. Also whatever converters he is using, maybe Burl or Crane Song , but whatever, are capable of sounding musical when pushed hard.

 

If you can run stuff out of your box through a Pultec or Shadow Hills, even an Avalon pre amp can do very musical things if you run your program through it. Things that are much more difficult to obtain in the box alone, if at all. Anything Neve... Mixing straight into a Focusrite Red comp can be inspiring. And being able to listen to the low end at higher SPL levels in a room and on speakers that can handle that hands down.

 

Last edited: Oct 15, 2016

Try embracing Bob Katz's K-Metering system (K-12 or K-14) when mixing, and you will stop looking at the master peak/RMS meter.
Mix towards what the track/song needs, instead of mixing towards a meter.

But this is way ahead of you. Try to get the basics down first and foremost. Do a mixing 101 course on Lynda.com (like Bobby Owsinski's - Audio Mixing Bootcamp) or similar.

6dB of average RMS before mastering is insanity. Thinking in terms of loudness per channel is also crazy (because loudness is all relative to how many tracks you have and how loud each is, etc). Just a heads up.

 

Last edited: Oct 15, 2016

Ime a mix master eingineer and generally I aim for -12 db kick everything else around that max rms for your limited track range from -10 to -6 depending on genre so the fact you acheive - 6 rms before limiting probably means your mix sounds like it is on crack and crytal meth at the same time!

The only reson why I dnt mix low at -18 which i would prefer is because the resolution is too low when it comes to automating with flying faders.

Anyway why dont you post something that we could hear or id be happy to do a skype session with you or something.

 

#2 The Reason this dosnt matter so much gettin the red light with 24 bit files in the channels in your DAW at 32/64 bit floating points is not actually clipping the audio because the extra headroom... Really only time to worry bout it is wen goin into plugins you might be using and wen comin out of your daw ... long as thos 2 are in check you have no worries ;)

 

Thanks i'm checking out now

 

Well from my experience of mixing.What i do is i never follow certain predefined rules,instead i just believe in myself while mixing.I mean i always believe my ears and after that my eyes.Certain people just go by predefined rules and end up totally destroying their mixes.I will suggest you to not just mix music of one genre but also mix others genres.Moreover,No matter what always try to mix below -1 or -2 db for every mix channel and you will automatically get a clean mix with enough room left for mastering process

 

Do what you feel, what you like. Experiment, spend some $$ on a day in the studio and do what you like with your tracks.
Don't forget to print it ...