Hi guys!
I analyze my EDM tracks and tracks from well known producers, in various plugins (nugen visualizer, izotope 7, etc ) and I see that :
1*Below 100 hertz not %100 mono ( even though I make everyting below 200h mono)
2-average phase correlation is 0, sometimes almost -1 (although I see my correlation is between 1 and 0 in my tracks before exporting after mastering)
3-there are some data below 40 hertz (even though I cut below 30 in my tracks)
4-When I import a well-knowns track it hits above 0 dB even though there is neither no plugin in the channel nor in the master channel
So these problems has something to do with them being converted to mp3 or wtf is goin gon?

 

Last edited: Oct 8, 2016

This information can vary quite a lot depending on the genre, but in general:

1. Depending on the situation (i would need to hear the tracks to know, it might not be that bad if its true stereo and not just stereo delay). If it is stereo delay then phase cancelling is a much bigger issue. Its not a fundamental rule in "clean mixing" or anything like that, moreso a guideline.
2. Again depends on what i said above.
3. The cuts can be a bit drastic, its fine for there to be frequencies at 40 and even 30Hz, just depends on their level. Remember EQ's do cuts in dB so in most cases the cut wont be 100%, unless you use like -96dB cuts in Pro-Q2 everywhere.
4.Unless they literally clip, there has to be something causing gain, faders/oversampling/some effect.

 

(Im sorry I forgot to mention to say that Im talking about edm songs. The songs are from r3hab, axwell, calvin harris I mean almost every track like this.)
I mean analyser shows that even sub bass is stereo in their tracks. but interestingly I make my sub %100 mono and take my export after mastering then analyze my own track and its sub changes to stereo too? wtf? I think after export somethings change, or it changes but doesnt affect the phase

 

When saving your track to wav (The mastered version) Save two copies. One that you want to keep to .wav and the other that you wish to convert to mp3. The one you plan on converting I would make sure doesn't exceed -0.6 db as that is what I allow when converting to mp3.

As for making a track mono. I mono Sub/Kick/Bass on their own tracks, then usually make around the 135hz (give or take 30 or 40hz) and below mono on the master track. Are you filtering out all the stray low frequencies from the other tracks?

 

I've had speaking voices show up in my recordings. The apartment complex I live in is haunted, so that might be an explanation.

 

MP3 is a lossy encoding system. That means it saves an approximation of your signal not your original signal.

A particular issue is high frequencies. A typical 192 bitrate MP3 is not going to carry any signsl much over 17K or thereabouts, and many encoders will mutate artifacts from higher frequencies down into lower frequencies after encoding. Similarly the process of approximation will result in significant overs if the original recording is at or near full scale. To minimize these problems you should research the encoder you are using to discover the maximum frequency you can safely encode for a given bitrate and format, and run a lowpass filter to roll off HF before encoding and

is very good advice.

 

Depends on what environment you're analyzing these tracks in. Chances are high you're probably not looking at these tracks in an .mp3 player, but a DAW or a two-track editor, and in both cases, when you import an .mp3, it's automatically converted into a different format (specifically, whatever your project format is or whatever your two-track editor is set to). Let's say you're importing a 192 kHz/16-bit .mp3 into a 48 kHz/24-bit DAW project. After conversion, your files automatically have a different headroom and bit-depth, because the converter has "filled in the blanks" to artificially create extra bit depth and sample rate. I actually have no idea how different that converted file will be from the .mp3, because I've never done it ... but it will be different. And it also won't be accurate, because the .mp3 has had a lot of information filtered out of it. I generally A-B my mixes against my .mp3s by ear only, usually in QuickTime Player, and take what I'm hearing with a huge grain of salt, because there is going to be a major difference between even a 44.1kHz/16-bit .wav file and an .mp3.

My advice to you is, if you're doing deep analysis of your mixes versus commercial mixes, either rip the commercial mixes from CD and keep them as .wav or .aiff files, or track down .flac files (or any other lossless format).

 

HF MP3 encoding response at various bitrates

From 'Do MP3 encoders sound different?'

http://archive.arstechnica.com/wankerdesk/1q00/mp3/mp3-1.html

The answer is yes.

 

Thats why mp3 tracks show unexpected stereo in sub low phase correlation etc? Everybody is support this idea guys?

Thank you for this advice! (I'd be happy if someone tells me a platform where I can download free .wav songs for references)

 

Do a test with encoding only the bass and recheck the correlation. Correlation is M/S phase difference, whereas MP3 is L/R encoding. If there's a subtle difference between the reconstituted bass in L and R that could show up as phase dffernce in a correlation meter. I'd use a goniometer and check in something like Samplitude (that has very accurate metering). The RME Digicheck would also be a good tool.

 

Don't export via your DAW. Record from your Output sound card on for example a Tascam DR-100 MKII or another numeric support.

 

I can't reproduce the reported bass behaviour. I'm using LAME 3.99.5 and used a bass heavy flac source, passed through the Brainworx bx_control plug using the standard supplied preset for everything below 400Hz to be mono. It produces mono to within 0.1 on the correlation meter below 400. I exported that to MP3 using standard settings to a 192 bitrate and it came back bass below 400Hz mono to 0.1 correlation.

It's an interesting additional test to NULL the MP3 against the flac and hear just how much top end you lose.

 

If you don't mind, could you explain why? I'm not doubting what you're saying. As someone who uses hardware, I was planning to buy something similar to record into, At present I record into Audacity through a usb mixer, bounce out to 32 bit wav, tidy up a bit in Ozone 7, and bounce out of Ozone.

 

12 reply's and everybody has forgot to ask what daw you are using?

It's actually conversion gone wrong if you ask me, I'm not qualified in any way to say this .
but my best guess is that if I export a mp3 to wav I can get 99% cancelation the big "if" here is that
mp3 intereper has to use the same encoder that is used to make the wav.

 

Last edited: Oct 9, 2016

Look at http://tascam.com/product/dp-03sd/

Tascam DP-006 Recorder http://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/Tascam-DP-006-Recorder/PQR

 

Roses from Chainsmokers...I high cut from 90hz and below 90hz is not %100 like you see in the picture..It is a well known track..and I analysed more songs and they dont have %100 mono sub too... whats happening?

and I added a track from tiesto under 70 hz is not mono Im really confused right now...

are you sure? guys we really have to take export from another software other than our daws??

 

Last edited: Oct 9, 2016

If you cut low frequencies there's always something still there, it always happened to me, whatever plugin or format I used. I thought it was normal behavior (especially under 40-50 Hz).
Also, I second the question as to why we shouldn't export from DAWs?

 

Your EQ is in zero latency not linear. Remember there will be phase bumps in Zero Latency EQ's that will raise the DB.

 

same results with linear max mode...

 

i have one thing to say, unless you absolutely know what you're doing and you have the experience needed, don't fuck with your song, sometimes less is more, and about exporting, i had found a way to get the good quality pro tracks have, not gonna share it now, but in general, exporting from daw, is not always the good thing to do, as some daws, have bad encoding, or bad re sampling, or not that good at it, you can still achieve VERY HIGH quality stuff, in full software full digital world.