Hi! I'm back again. This time with a much more stupid question.

Without more talking about the origin and the reasons behind the advent of the minimalism, I really want to know why I can not write long phrase songs without the key changing. All of the materials for making a good track are available out there but in every try I can not put more than 8 different chords in succession. When I insist on making them longer, the piece does not sound good to be usable in mixing electronically . Without further digging into the harmony and prolongation techniques, please guide me in a streamlined manner. Is the problem with me or the characteristics of electronic genres? Because the other songs made by the other producers have the same problem or even worse.

Making longer melodies is so easier for anyone but for the chord progressions it's the tedious phase of my production. I don't want to play with the sound variations to seduce people but just make longer pieces using more different chords.

Thank you!

 

Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2016

It depends. I just made a 10 minutes song, I'm pretty happy about it and it doesn't really get boring (at least for me).
What are you specifically asking? Ah ok, wait, I see now. You are asking the opposite. You want to make something longer than 8 chords.
I don't know what this has to do with minimalism, 8 chord seems a lot already for me, especially in electronic genres.

Music (especially electronic stuff) is supposed to be repetitive. Longer melody? Why would you want that? I'd rather have a single melody with lots of variation, or multiple melodies. Nobody wants a long melody, it isn't memorable. More than 8 chords? That's kinda weird in electronic music. I mean even in conventional songs you don't have much going on, it's all about repetition.

You say you want to seduce people making longer pieces with different chords? Well, I'd suggest not writing these pieces as electronic dance music. I mean, everything is possible, there are no rules, et bla bla bla. But there's a reason if the formulas work.

Onto your specific question, one thing I heard in many songs is changing something in the second part of the progression, or just changing it throughout the whole song BUT still maintaining the same feeling/progression. Just little changes that help in making some diversity.

EDIT: I'll add something. When you change TOO MUCH the progressions the song is just wandering around, it has no clear purpose and no clear ending/beginning. The same way a melody that keeps going on for 32 bars and doesn't show a sign of repetition.

A song I was listening right some minutes ago that had a longer progression than usual: Astralasia - Aloo
Ok maybe not, it's a long progression but it's still not many chords, lol

I can't believe I'm explaining this stuff to you foster!
Music is all about repetition, that's one thing I know for sure

 

Trying to beat Mozart, eh (listen the first minute on the video below)? If you can't make memorable music (and I mean literally memorable as in being able to "hum" it after a first listening) you're doing it wrong. I mean, you're still playing with sound but you're not actually making music.

By the way, in what known-to-man musical pieces (regardless the genre) have you found such immense chord progressions as you want to build?

 

Just follow the steps on the circle of 5ths and use all the chords/keys, instead of resolving normally. Only other musicians would be able to hum your tune then.

 

Last edited: Sep 1, 2016

Get back to the roots foster. get to know your history and you will know the answer you seek maybe. I would point to this serie its good

BBC Howard Goodall's Story of Music 1of6 The Age of Discovery

 

@jayxflash thanks for that link!

 

Use different voicings.

 

Precisely. Or make diatonic key changes and keep the same melody. Change the rhythm but keep the same melody.
Judging by all the questions you have asked, if i were you @foster911, just to get a better understanding of how songs evolve. I would pick a song I really like and use it's arrangement as a template for a song you intend to finish. Don't use the same key or melody or anything like that, but organize you song in the same manner. Use the same number instruments in a similar timbre, whose parts are of the same duration as your song. Or like if the root of the verse moves up a fourth during the chorus do the same thing.

After you have done this a few times you will start to hear the evolution of your own music in your own head. But until you can "hear it" for yourself know amount naming techniques to you is going to allow you to manipulate them at your leisure. Because if you could you wouldn't be asking, you would just simply hear it and replicate it. It's called reverse engineering.

 

I almost don't have any problem in turning the basic ideas into something that resembles a song. I made this one in just 1 hour after this thread. As you see the melody is so short enough to be memorized. Creating even the strongest melodies is the fastest possible process for any producer.


I also have found some systematic ways of producing drum grooves without using any kit. As you can hear the sounds are a bit strange because all of them are synthesized sounds. Anyway my workflow for creating my favorite songs is getting completed every day. An important one remains unchanged and that's the shortage of phrases harmonically. I can do some variations on the notes for making different ones but I think it's just cheating. I invested lots of time on learning harmony (because I was thinking it's the only way of making longer pieces) but in the production phase, it's not helping much. It seems that the electronic musics have been bewitched by the classic composers to musically be short.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2016

It's difficult 2b critical of u foster, I kinda like ur style, u know? But u can has allowed 2 kinda hold chords and notes, y'know? Just 2 break 4 cpl bars using variation and contrast. I don't wanna dissuade u, cos I like ur densely-packed "everything", but sometime just playing around with lead with interesting texture can b fun, doesn't need even anything much 2 embellish it, just simple 1/4 delay. I'd kinda like 2c more breakdowns & more textures in ur work, tho; having some distortion and/or slow slidey lead 2 contrast all that pure tone & attack & arp-itude? I dunno if u ever just improvise & treat this as ur "verse", either?

 

Note! A song you intend to finish! You'll not get there by thinking too much, more doing.

They sound great with that bass, really like it. Unfortunately the lead sucks, to be honest.

 

Listen to Daft Punk - Homework. Great inspiration for simple, yet complex composition. I always go back to that album for inspiration. 'Around the world' has an amazing bass line with two parts. It's all it needs and the rest is really groove influenced beats and riffs.

If you want to get complex and find inspiration for variable crazy composition, check out squarepusher (one of my favorite artists)

 

Really appreciate for spending time listening to BS. I made this one for the 2nd hour. I think it's a bit better than the first one.


For the first one, did not consider any harmony and the bass and lead are almost independent and the perhaps one reason for its sounding bad is that. For the second one, I used 6 chords and the bass, pad and lead are tightly related to each other.

Music without harmony is nothing and my aim from creating this thread was just lengthening the harmony.

 

the answer is easy. you need to pass Harmony course
Harmony takes you to a new world
take it easy and start it

 

@foster911: I know it's not the point of the thread, but I really like the drums!!

 

You know I'll always listen to your tracks. You've come a long way, just a bit further to go, which is to make it into a full track. Keep at it. You should be proud of your progress.
That leads a big improvement. It has some weight to it. I would have gone with something darker, but that's just me. Well done!

 

Foster the problem with you is that you dont know what the fuck you want to do with the song.
Now that is not an uncommon phenomenon,you have grown and your sounds get better and better but harmony or the lack of it is your main enemy.
The solution?Listen to music,a lot,its not that hard,you are over complicating.

 

It's defo sounding moar like finished song, u even have intro! Shocked me to teh core! Hehs. I was gonna say b4 u shud cut out the synth "drums" schratschhyness when u introduce that arpish melody, bit clashy. And u did! But then faded back in, still think it sound btr without; maybe just use hh or gate a lil bit?

Was just expecting scrumptious, smooth, slow, slidey solo synth to kick in alone; just as the song ended. Or maybe just with lil LFO-cntrl rhythm swells on pads 2 subtly imply strong rhythm? Oh well, always keep em wanting moar, eh? =) Great build-up in latest (minimalism#2) almost getting moar like dreamy, upbeat Kraftwerk, instead of the myriad adventures of Samus!

 

Last edited: Sep 3, 2016