So I've completed a production, the mix is complete and I export everything individually for mastering, only to find out the individual tracks are not effected by my effects that I used on the master channel. I have EQ, phaser and all that on the master channel. Why won't it export the individual tracks with the applied master effects? If I export at a full unison track it is fine, but as individual, they are not effected....


aahhhh! I'm so frustrated. I guess I'll just have to master the mix as a whole

 

That's the way it's meant to be.

Why would you want each single track in the tracks export processed by the master bus FX?
Will your mastering engineer work with multitrack stems?
If you really want it, you can export full and mute the tracks you don't want (i.e. only unmute one track per export). A little time-consuming but you if you really really need it automated, you can do so with AHK (Windows) or Automator (Mac).

 

This is correct behvior for DAW signal flow.

SOund goes from

Track source > track insert FX > Master FX > speakers (what you hear).

SIgnals do not flow backwards.

When you export Tracks, you export @ the TRACK level before master, so you won't get Master FX. This is STANDARD in (almost) every DAW.

 

phaser on the master?

 

Thanks...i found a way! I just exported individually, deleted all my tracks in Ableton and then left the master with all the effects remaining, then imported all the tracks back in audio form and whoolaa.....

 

Even if you did want the effects on the master to effect the individual tracks as you render each one out , it's going to come out sounding different being rendered to each individual track as opposed to when they all go through it at once as a master fx when you render.

 

It's turned on and off during certain short periods of the track. .......you can check it out here:

 

As long as you got it sorted, all is well.

The DAW was behaving normally though, when exporting groups or individual tracks they do not route through the master channel.

 

I'm going to be using the "return" channels next time.....ack....

 

Yeah, I haven't tested this recently (and can't right now) but if you want to send the tracks to a return and get rid of the dry signal (so, the same as if you had turned an effect on and off on the master) I think you can drop a utility before the effect on the send, invert the phase of the incoming audio and... presto! you've got a wet/dry knob

edit: I'm not sure why, but I think I remember it actually being more complicated than this. Like you have to enable sending from a return track (by right clicking the send knobs on the return track and clicking enable send) and then send it to another return with an effect on it.

second edit: Yes! I'm almost certain you have to send from a return track because you need the output of the phase inverted dry signal to cancel the dry signal. So I think You send at -0dB to the phase inverted track...then send -0dB from that track to your FX send... and THEN use the volume fader of that track as your wet/dry knob

I've only done this a couple times. Can't remember off the top of my head. I'm sure if you fiddle around with it a little you'll get the gist of it

 

Last edited: Aug 11, 2016

Cav Emp! That may work some of the time, but won't work all of the time, especially with plugins etc that contain built in non-linearities and free flowing LFO's etc... Essentially you are suggesting nulling the return track as an on-off method, (which admittedly can be easier in the case you suggested ((everything effected for a moment or so)) ), .... but I hear what you are saying...


I usually just resample the 2 track out and put it on another track, and zero out all the other tracks during that time period... of course if your arrangement or mix is in flux, this can back you into a corner as well, but I tend to commit early... it's easier then figuring out some way to mute the dry signal path depending on the circumstances... but hmmm, you got me thinking... your suggestion WOULD work in a lot of situations for just that "DJ" type FX on everything quite fast (if not perfect all the time), ..... I will have to try it out... without performing lots of different routing or pain in the ass automating, your idea might be the ticket...

(sorry for long reply flip flopping, just thinking about the merits of your suggestion as I type!) respect!

 

I don't know why I didn't use a return track......I guess doing the master was just..well more convenient. I have an easy solution though. I have all my dials on the track channels to full wet 100%, I have my return channel set to off and linked, and then when I want to bring the effect in I simply enable the phaser when I need it. Basically what I've been doing already but with a return channel. I know for sure, when it exports single tracks it will export the return channel, so we're good. I should have probably already known this! Just something I never really looked into before!

Thanks for the info guys!

 

That sounds like a good solution as well, thanks for sharing!

i don't remember, are "Return" tracks on the latest Ableton plugin delay compensated as well? I remember some issue with this awhile back, and it didn't get in my way too much as I usually use inserts except for some verbs/delays etc that even if they weren't wouldn't KILL me so to speak.,...

 

Select all of your tracks and group them into a single folder. Then apply your mastering effects to this folder.

 

Instead of applying your mastering FX to the Group, set the Group to 'Sends Only', create two Audio Tracks and set the 'Audio From' in both to the Group Track. Apply all your FX to one of the two new Audio Tracks. Now you have separated your Wet and Dry signals.

Click one of the new tracks Activator buttons to deactivate it while leaving the other activated and key-map both the track activators to the same key. Pressing that key will activate one track while deactivating the other. Unlike the 'Solo' button you can automate Track Activators.

 

This would work unless you already have tracks in groups in your session.... and some of the other issues grouping can sometimes bring in (some of the side chaining "gotcha's" and whatnot....

 

I have a couple of friends who are just getting into DAW-based music production, and it seems like half the questions I answer are signal-flow related. I think it's because so many people nowadays learn and work exclusively "in-the-box." There's nothing wrong with that, but it does mean understanding signal flow isn't as much of the learning process anymore, and many people have never physically routed audio around a studio. As anybody who was taught to mix on analog consoles will know, the need to understand signal flow is constantly hammered into you. When audio is running all over the place--from mics, through a patch bay, and in and out of outboard processors--and the inevitable problems pop up, you have to have a rock solid understanding of where everything is going if you don't want to spend an hour trying to isolate the issue.

Of course, things aren't quite that complicated using a DAW. I'm just saying understanding signal flow is something a lot of people seem to look over, and it would prevent a lot of headaches if more people recognized it as an essential part of the learning process, especially since most DAW's are structured like hardware consoles to some extent.

I hope nobody takes this post as an insult. I'm certainly not trying to talk down to anyone, just trying to pass on the perspective of somebody who started on analog equipment and moved to DAW's. Most often, it's me learning from people who have spent a lot more time with DAW's than I have.

 

Using my first modular synth plugin was an eye-opening experience

you mean I need to patch a cable to both outputs just to get a stereo signal?

 

Good solution as well Articstorm my friend! .... and YES Ableton desperately needs to figure out a solution to the group within a group issues.... possibly with v10, with new z algo's, better video implementation, perhaps some better audio nudging tools etc... "takes", easier "notes", hiding tracks, and .... the last of which seem to be pretty easy to do with their existing framework, ..... just to keep it more usable as a full functional daw... I really love ableton, it's my favorite thing to write with, and am hesitant to port over to another DAW for these things, .... we need those things more then another great cytomic compressor etc.... I wish they would devote some coding time to these things.... would really stop a lot of the criticism they face... Most don't need another synth with the stock stuff, and as much as the new filters etc are cool, ..... I really would just prefer some better WORK FLOW options!!!

best...