Hey Qrchack, to be fair, the cadence is unrelated to the progression I was illustrating,
but on those points you argue I will defend my solutions as best I can.
(If I knew I would be on trial I wouldn't have dashed it off without a second thought
because I see I made a mistake in the second bar—thankfully no one saw. ; )

Your resolution would create a parallel octave.*

It would also break with structural logic:

Compared to the original 6-4 sequence:

(Note that I deliberately returned all the voices to their starting point)

That outlines a C major chord and destroys the sense of close for the tenor voice.
It also leaves a bare octave in the top which is not a balanced chord position to close with.

*On the avoidance of parallels by leaping voices see
the Bach Chorale 'Es ist das Heil uns kommen her'.
Two B's look like they rise to C but the singers actually cross.

 

Four-Part writing (SATB) VS Popular-Music notation

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Four-part writing (SATB)

Four-part writing demonstrates in an uncomplicated fashion the principles that are the basis of compositions from the renaissance to19th century periods.

Chorale harmonizations reveal many of the basic idioms of four-part writing in the baroque style. The principles that govern chord progression and voice leading are inherent in chorales.

In four-voice textures, the interaction of harmony and melody and their equal importance become clear. The four individual melodic lines come together, generating a chord, while maintaining smooth melodic connections from pitch to pitch. We can observe clearly many of the voice-leading conventions that dominate common-practice-period tonal music in eighteenth-century four-voice compositions.
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Popular-Music notation

Just as figured bass was the shorthand of the eighteenth century, popular-music symbols are the shorthand of the twentieth century—a system for notating chords when the performer is expected to improvise the specific details. Instead of writing out the exact notes on score paper, popular music composers and arrangers indicate the chords to be used for accompaniment with chord symbols written above the melody line of the composition. Such a score, with the melody and the popular-music symbols, is called a lead sheet or fake sheet.

Popular-music symbols, like figured-bass symbols, give the performer information about the chords required, but popular-music symbols usually give no information about the bass line. The performer is expected to improvise that part. The chord indications are simple to master and generally refer to root-position chords. Guitar players and keyboard players alike can read and interpret them. The addition of rhythmic patterns and arrangements of the chord factors is left to the performers, most of whom are well trained in the art of improvisation. Although chord indications are given in root position, most performers will voice the chords—that is, arrange them for the best voice leading, which may mean placing some chords in inversion. In some recent popular music, the bass position is indicated with a slash followed by the bass note: C/G means a C major chord with G in the bass.
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In the 21st century musics, do we really need to know writing in the old SATB format?

I asked it because thinking simultaneously in both formats makes confusions.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2016

i was looking into Harmony Builder and Pizzicato Professional

 

This tutorial is good:
https://www.udemy.com/music-theory-iii-part-writing-and-analysis/

 

What is Voice Leading?
A simple explanation
http://music.stackexchange.com/questions/14779/what-is-voice-leading




Some useful and practical aspects of 4-part writing (Soprano, Alto, Tenor and Bass- SATB)

1- The essence of all tonal music compositions can be expressed melodically, harmonically and rhythmically within the confines of 4 parts. For more elaborate orchestrations, the composition can be exported as a MIDI file and opened in any orchestral notation editor.

2- Thinking in 4 parts makes it easier to compose.

3- By constraining the entire composition to 4 parts, it is possible to implement complex chord and voice-leading recognition algorithms.





1- Do you accept the correctness of the underlined sentence above?

2- Is there any system better and more modern than 4-part writing to deal with the chord progressions or it's the only mechanism?

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2016

See if these help...

I'm a big fan of J.S. Bach. He's great for choirs.

Almost like an octave delay ( LOL, sorry Bach...). Lebowsky would copy the melody a 3rd, a 6th, a 5th an 8th in the piano roll
and then erase some notes according to the rules above. Then copy the melody an 8a higher a few bars ahead, do some adjustments and pronto! . That never ending feeling...
A thousand notes went by and he didn't even notice...

This is so crazy! My poor fingers...I get high just by watching it...

They say each melody in Bach's counterpoint has its own personality. They are like people expressing their (different) opinions over a theme or subject.

Check out this first song:

Double orchestra, one each side, three choirs and still makes sense...
It's like 18th century 5.1 surround...

I'm not a religious kind of person! His music is great though...

Since I started listening to Bach I've notice voices in my head (more than the usual ones...)

There are plenty of sites where you can get MIDI files from classical composers. I used to download and plug any vst synth to study them. I can only recommend this.

... or if gets worse...

 

Last edited: Jul 15, 2016

If this voice was present during Bach period, the western harmony would re-route to another path:

 

I found this flow useful for practicing progressions and voice leading (Major and minor keys):


Chord Flow
The idea behind all Western music is to create tension and release through the alternation of Tonic function (I, iii, vi) and Dominant function (V, vii) chords. Triads or Quadriads built on degrees V and VII contain the scale note (the "leading tone") one half-step below the root of the Tonic chord I, and therefore set up the highest possible degree of tension with I.

The iii chord also contains the leading tone, but is best considered as a V chord with a suspended 6th which then resolves down to form a full V chord.

The IV chord contains a note one half-step above the 3rd of I, but also contain the root of I. For this reason the tension it creates with I is not as great as that of the Dominant function chords. As an alternative to resolving IV to I (called a "plagal cadence"), we may chose to increase the tension further, by changing the notes of IV to those of V, and then follow with a strong resolution to I (called a "perfect cadence").

Harmonic progressions are composed by stringing together chord functions while giving a balanced sense of tension-release. The Chord Flow Chart below shows the available directions at each step of the way.

Almost all routes are open at any junction, except:
ii IV/iv and vi/VI I which provide too weak a release in tension.
ii I which is almost impossible to resolve without creating similar motion in the voice leading (similar motion should always be avoided in good counterpoint).
V ii which is impossible since the leading note must rise to the Tonic.
ii vi and IV vi which would sound like a modulation to vi.
ii VI would present difficulties since any note forming a diminished 5th must descend.

Note that the chords for some functions can be major or minor, depending on the prevailing key.
Note also that the height of the boxes above the Tonic box represent the degree of tension away from the Tonic.





Do you have any clue why "Suspended and Added Note Chords" are absent in this flow?

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2016

I just wan"t to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. A lot of good stuff in here.

 

Does anyone consider voice-leading rules during compositions? I mean do you choose chords regarding their functions and voicings or just randomly (what suits your ears best or using tools like ChordPulse)? How do you choose your favorite chords?

Suppose you need for instance 10 chords for a piece of your track. There are 2 options:
1- Relying on your previous experiences (familiarization with chords' soundings and selecting without even thinking).
2- Relying on the traditional harmony principles being taught in the harmony classes.
Which solution do you prefer? Solution one I think is limited and kind of trial and error. Not knowing what would be resulted at the end.

Assume you want to create a track for the harmony professionals not ordinary people. Selecting the optimal chords needs ....

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2016

Haven't read all the responses so forgive me if the following has been discussed.

Interesting article on voice leading,

http://www.hearandplay.com/main/voice-leading-principles-for-triads-less-hand-movement-more-harmony

There are more examples on that site regarding voice leading drop-2 chords.

There isn't really an "optimal" choice unless you are composing for a specific genre and are trying to emulate something else.

Your questions are kind of one and the same. In both cases I'd imagine that it'd depend on what you were hoping to create.

 

Suspended chords usually resolve the suspended note, ie: the 4 or 2 back to the 3rd they were in place of. Sorry bad sentence.

Failing that they are likely to be preparing the composition for some kind of key change.

I think it's important to remember that the study of harmony isn't explicit to chords.

 

Thanks sharppy! A deserving name for you.

That is one reason and the other one maybe this (found it right now):

Intervals from consonance to dissonance:
1. Prime or unison
2. Octave
3. Perfect fifth
4. Perfect fourth
5. Major third
6. Minor sixth
7. Minor third
8. Major sixth
9. Major second
10. Minor seventh
11. Minor second
12. Major seventh
13. Augmented fourth/diminished fifth

Suspended (sus2 = 1 2 5, sus4 = 1 4 5) and Added Note (add9 = 1 3 5 9, 6add9 = 1 3 5 6 9) Chords have Major second interval between between their notes and Major second interval is more dissonant than the common triads' intervals.

I said maybe. When timbre of any instrument be regarded, rules are not rules anymore and are just simple guidelines and that's the reason I hate timbre. It ruins everything even Bach's dream. Suppose Bach with a distorted guitar in his hands. I always wonder how SeamlessR (A hardcore producer) chooses his notes on the piano roll (without any previous thought) just by listening. In the distorted sounds, music harmony does not work as intended. Am I right?

Yes, of course not.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2016

Hi to all of you my friends!

I know this one is more stupid than the previous ones but I don't have any choice. So please forgive me and just even a quick answer will be appreciated a lot.


I converted below chord progression into the chorale (4 part) harmony and its sounding is OK to me but I found that in some beats, there are some successive fifth and octave errors between neighboring chords. Even there would be other considerations like interval or range checking, etc that I omitted them and chose the voices aurally. Also I did not check the voices separately for each of the lines to be melodically flowing (I just listened to the notes vertically).



Which one is a better judge?
1- Our ears
or
2- Traditional principles.

I know my ears are not still perfect for being a good judge but I'm OK most of the times with these kinds of progressions and my selections satisfy my goals. Yes there always should be compromises in selections and by raising my knowledge I would be able to choose better voices but it needs good ear training, deep harmony studying, etc.


I also attach the midi file, please listen to it and tell me what you feel about the correctness of the voices chosen for each voice inside the chords considering inversions and doublings.

Best regards.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2016

Well, you can spot parallel fifths and octaves occasionally even in Bach, but someone like Debussy likes them for the textures.
It doesn't matter as long it sounds good and you are writing in the right vocal ranges for the different parts of the choir.

You can find the sheet music and even midi files of every important or popular choral piece on the internet, so it's easy to learn from the masters.

http://www.learnchoralmusic.co.uk/complist.html#list

 

@Third World Kid maybe you find someone experienced who can do the harmonization for you. You need to have done a lot of harmonizations in order to be able to know what sounds good and what does´t. You need to know the music theory very well and also a lot of ear training because you need to imagine what it will sound like afterwards. So unless you´re willing to put a lot of time and energy into that matter i suggest you do yourself a favor and ask someone experienced to do it for you.

Oh and by the way, counterpoint is usually only two voices and follows different rules than a choir harmonization

 

Last edited: Jul 27, 2016

Hm, maybe this will be interesting for someone.
The books from Sergei Taneev (Convertible counterpoint in the strict style - think Palestrina- and Doctrine of the Canon) are out of copyright and free on the internet.
https://archive.org/details/convertiblecount00tane
http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/handle/10150/283986

The guy is one of the greatest russian choir composers, but the subject is advanced and his methods are not traditional.

 

Yeah, spot on. Pleasantly surprised we're in agreement on something ! Given previous discussions.

 

Yep. It depends on the Overtone series. Everything has Timbre except a sine wave. The Timbre could be defined as an overtone series that has frequencies at different amplitudes.

An interesting analysis would be that of a Guitar Amps. Transistor V Tube. I'm sure you can find lots of info about that on a search engine.