The Dark Knight theme is in D Minor.
Just saying.

 

My feeling is that you missed the joke, friend. So you can Lick My Love Pump ;)

But if anyone tries to tell you there is no difference between writing a song the major or relative minor they are wrong, so sayeth the me.
Diatonic Harmony Theory 101 (disclaimer: none of this is written in stone, or is it? trust your ears, but really the work has been done)
The chord functions change:
major (tonic) minor (super tonic) minor (medient) major (sub dominant) major (dominant) minor (sub medient) diminished (leading tone) major
these functions tend to pull the listener into a particular direction, particularly home.
i.e.: (this was the first one i saw, but there's probably better)


we all know the I IV V (blues) and some might even know the jazz version: ii vi V I. There's reason for this, that you can find out for yourself,I'm no expert.

Now the main difference between a major and relative minor key center:

1. the tonic is now minor (I > i)
2. the dominant function is lost (V7 > v)
3. the supertonic becomes diminished (ii > II°)
4. the leading tone is lost (VII° > VII)
so all the functions are screwed. and this is why in the relative minor you (borrow or substitute) chords from the relative major (if that's even a thing) or neighbouring keys or Neptune....so instead of:
min dim maj min min maj maj min
min (min) maj maj (dom) maj maj min

the possibilities are endless. and don't forget i'm basing all of this on tonal harmony which you can throw out the window and come up with some cool shit, of course ;) modes etc..

again, none of this is written in stone, but ya know it sorta is.


there no "difference" between C major and F major because the intervals are the same. there is a difference between C major and F minor because the tonality changes.

cool tip!:
like playing all the black keys? try playing all the white keys from D - D and you are playing the Dorian scale; if you ask me, is the funkiest of all keys, I find. People wiggle instantly when they hear it.

of if you want the most pure or happy of all keys try the lydian mode F - F.
and now we're getting F*cking deep. George Russell, Miles Davis et al and the
Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization

This isn't very techno, or is it?

 

Last edited: Jul 14, 2016

Look into the relationships between the pentatonic scale and quartal chords, McCoy Tyner, "open" sound.
NYC represent, represent sent.

 

@almightyshux
We finally found a person talking seriously about the theory and I'm happy with that.
God bless you.
Please be more with us and don't let me be alone. People here are teasing me.

 

I've been a huge "devotee" of Tyner ever since I can remember. An innovative pianistic standout, and a true purveyor of Jazz improv. Perfect example? This piece:

 

Music doesn't necessarily need a key center. Bossa Nova will break your brain. Brazilians are insane with their chords. You could even say they change key at every chord in their progressions. or just playing outside, then outside of that then outside of that etc etc. the combinations are endless.
Some people need a home, some people are nomads.

I think it's doubtful playing from A to A without any modifications is common, but i;m probably wrong.
Look up modality. C-C D-D E-E F-F G-G A-A B-B

Ionian C D E F G A B C all major and perfect intervals

Dorian C D Eb F G A Bb C minor 3rd and 7th

Phrygian C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C minor 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 7th

Lydian C D E F# G A B C augmented 4th

Mixolydian C D E F G A Bb C minor 7th

Aeolian C D Eb F G Ab Bb C minor 3rd, 6th, 7th

Locrian C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C minor 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 7th,
diminished 5th


Now we're talking difference in "FEEL" or "VIBE"
some sound PURE some sound MYSTICAL etc etc.

 

ignore them, buddy



"Without good listening to the millions of tracks in different genres, you'll absolutely produce shit! More thinking and learning, less producing."

this is nice.

If I can add to that, I've always believed listening for inspiration within the same style or genre is detrimental to the process. Therefore fusing different styles into what you're working on helps to keep the music from becoming inbred and predictable.

 

it's funny that some people aren't getting that you are quoting Spinal Tap. haha

 

I just told my significant other the same thing, oh how we laughed. Seen it lately? Brilliant. Read about what the rock stars of that decade said about it when it was released. it was like it hurt their feelings.

 

My ignore button does not work for anyone. I love even their teasing because is more sweeter than strip fashion.

 

Klaus Schulze used to work in a-minor, if i could only find the reason why

 

@almightyshux good stuff...I like the way you present the modes... I can't say I really had much insight into them before the
way you broke it down... just always see people demo them... but you tag them with some emotional color.. that seems to be the only way I can relate to music.. I don't have much technical framework for it.. though I agree it would be useful...

tell me more...

oh and @foster911 has a new best friend

(ever since best m8y , EDM guru, and LEGEND Steve-O is gone anyway... )

I will add.. I have seen discussions on songs that use mostly the black keys... e.g. Stevie Wonder's Superstition
with the comments about it being " easier for a blind guy "..
but I never imagined finding keys was any hindrance to his genius !

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2016

This was the 2nd full track I'd done. I was doing a lot of experimentation with Harmour and Citrus in FL Studio. I wouldn't've known if it was Robotronic scale to be honest. At that moment I just liked the way it sounded.
Ah! Sod it! Just for fun here it is


So, I'm now getting into my flame retardant suit for the deluge of " you know nothing about music theory or production."

 

Now, you know I only do it for your own good, don't you?
Oh! While we're on the subject. Have you started that track yet?

 

I wouldn't say "subjective", I'd say they're more "contextual". As someone already said, one song in D-minor can have a different feeling than another song in D-minor, but that can be attributed to instrumentation, timbre, structure, choice of melody, etc.

It's clear that TYPES of keys (major, minor, and other modes) should have a different effect as the intervals are mathematically different. Again, the effect will be somewhat dependent upon culture, previous personal exposure, etc. but I think there's something inherent to them, just as a baby crying will tend to elevate the blood pressure of those that hear it. I suppose that means it's subjective to the human experience, but I think certain things are pleasing/displeasing to most/all people without being prejudiced or biased. If someone drops a baby on the floor, 99.9% of people in the room are going to gasp out of instinct. 99.99% of people will identify a major scale as sounding happier/peppier than a minor scale, all things being equal.

This is a lot more testable/perceivable because you can play C-major versus A-minor on the exact same instrument with the exact same notes, with the exact same tuning. The only difference being the intervals are different because of the suggested tonic.

As for the difference between (as an example) A-minor and let's say E-minor (same mode, different tonic), I think that's solely dependent upon utility and context. Since the intervals are the same, it's only a case of tuning up or down. Most instruments have a range in which they are suited for a particular effect (heavy metal guitar being tuned below E, etc.) but that has less to do with the actual note value and more to do with the resonance and playability of the particular instrument.

The same principle applies to drums. If you detune a kick drum then it gets too flabby and ill-defined and if you over-pitch it then it loses bass. So there's a sweet spot, but that has less to do with the specifics of the actual pitch (note value) and more to do with the physical properties of the drum heads and the acoustics of the resonant cavities. I don't think it's safe to say that ALL kick drums sound better at exactly 48 Hz, just as you can't say that D#-minor is "heavier" than E-minor. It all depends on the instrument (standard guitar, baritone, or bass) and musical context.

There's no way to measure it as "all things being equal" because any given instrument changes its behavior when tuned up or down to any given pitch, even if you keep the intervals and mode the same. I believe it's fundamentally a theory that cannot be tested.

 

I could make some guesses, but it's pure conjecture.

Let's assume minor over other modes because it's sad and moody without being too esoteric.

The key of A is a convenient key to play in for guitar and every other stringed instrument. That's why the orchestra always tunes to the oboe. A-minor is a very convenient key to play on piano/keyboard/synth (for obvious 'white note' reasons). It also holds the advantage of having notes below the lowest tonic.

What?

What I mean is that if you're playing in C-minor (on keyboard) then the lowest tonic note (the lowest C) on the keyboard is the last key to the left. If you playing the lowest C (due to timbre, etc.) then you CANNOT write any melody that has a note lower than C. And if you're playing in C-minor then you'd sure as hell be gravitating toward that C, right? So the only way to have enough wiggle room is to go up an octave to the next C, which ends up being higher than playing in A (and probably a lighter/thinner timbre).

A-minor is a good compromise between character, ease of writing melody, the playability of all white keys, and interaction with other instruments.

That's just why I would choose A-minor a lot. But I don't have the clout of once being in Tangerine Dream, so the value of my speculation is practically nil.

 

This is kind of related:
https://audiosex.pro/threads/music-theory.24064/page-2#post-179804

So then what's the benefit of learning the theory?

What I believe is music theory is so so so so difficult to master. If also someone could combine it with the acoustics, most of bewilderments and perplexities would be resolved successfully but the problem is how many musicians like to invest on that? Everyone wants to play with the sounds without knowingly understanding how the music really works.

 

What "theory"?

Music theory in general? There are plenty of reasons to learn theory, such as anticipating the likely dissonance or consonance between any combination of notes. Also, whether culturally biased / otherwise subjective or not, music theory predicts general emotional trends and listener expectations. It's infinitely useful as a tool to help shape the rhythm, tempo, and pitch choices of your musical creations.

That's not the "theory" I was talking about though. I meant my pet theory that changing the tonic of a particular mode chiefly has a different effect because of the timbre/acoustics of any given instrument. I believe that different modes inherently do have different emotional responses/anticipations/tensions. I do not believe that transposing any given mode will alter those emotional expectations except as far as that pitch adjustment alters the expression of the instrument. That's the aspect I believe can never be tested.

But you're right that music theory pretty much breaks down when you get into sound design and acoustics. A simple example is that elaborate chords on a heavily distorted electric guitar tend to turn to mush--which is why power chords are so en vogue among rockers. Evolving timbres, chaotic acoustics, bizarre sound design, etc. can upend music theory to a degree because those things can radically change the input ("I'm going to play an E here...") to an entirely unintended output (OMFG!! WALL OF KALEIDOSCOPIC NOISE!!!! WTF IS HAPPENING?!) It's not so much that music theory fails, but becomes harder to parse because the sound becomes so twisted that the "rules" that you think apply in a situation no longer do.

I think that's true in any field. It's easier to predict where a car is going to go in the next 0.5 seconds than where it's going to be an hour from now. It's easier to know how three pure sine waves are going to interact than it is to know how smashing nine different drum breaks and the sound of stampeding elephants is going to sound.

 

WTF are you writing an encyclopedia? What's with all the questions?

2: Everything I learned in musical theory was self taught. And when I experiment with different methods, I use self inspiration. Everybody can just go fuck themselves when I write a song. It pays to be different. I taught myself how to write/read music because I grew up in a town full of drug addicts who didn't wanna do anything but lay around like a bunch of corpses. You'd have to hit em over the head about 280 times with a Ibanez guitar just to determine if they had rigor mortis falling into place or if it was just Monday.
1: Not everything is subjective but everything is sub to my fat-ass sister in law. Put a big land mine on the table & she'll probably try & eat it thinking it's a sub. She loves subs. She's got sub tv set, sub chairs, sub wallpaper, fuck it, she's got sub toilet paper, too. Everything's gotta be subs or it's "get it the fuck outta my sight!"

 

Sorry to bump a week-old thread, but thought I may as well give my opinions.

Studies have definitely shown that certain minor chords tend to cause negative emotions, and the chords you make are based on the key of course, unless you're the type of person in throws in a million different accidentals in your music and those people honestly deserve to be slapped in the face by us instrument players who are trying to play your music..

Another thing to bring up is Musical Therapy, which has proven to be effective in syncing the body/emotions to different keys. I definitely reccomend googling this, it's fascinating. I've always wanted to try it.

As for my actual OPINIONS, I believe each key has its own feel and can be good for conveying certain kinds of emotions. It doesn't necessarily mean that each key has its own feeling associated with it.. I wish I could explain this better, people have agreed with me on this statement but I believe this just has to do with my weird perception of the world.

You could probably convey any emotion in any key, it really just lies within how you choose to interpret your emotions in music. It is the universal language after all, and because it's universal I believe that makes it very flexible as well.

I shall do my own research on the topic some more when I'm not feeling so overwhelmed, and will hopefully bring some better explanations and sources...