Help! I'm getting wet.

And want to build a strumming machine. With SynthEdit, Plogue Bidule or Reaktor.

Requirements:
- no DAW in-build stuff like arpeggiators etc.
- no sound generation only midi in/out
- no chord generation, chords should arrive and then come out strummed.

I tested and tested and tested.

Reaktor seems to complicated and has some non-polyphonic pitfalls I think.
I found this objects, which may could help, but wasn't successful:
- note in
- gate
- merge
- delay

Bidule does its math in Hz to Midi, which seems a little strange too.
I found this objects, which may could help, but wasn't successful:
- in/out
- MIDI Delay Basic
- Stack
- Voice Counter

But anyways:
I currently did not test SynthEdit but I would with some help/tips (I'm a programmer using other languages).

QUESTION:
DOES ANYBODY KNOWS WHICH OBJECTS I NEED FOR THIS IN ONE OF THIS FRAMEWORKS AND HOW TO CONNECT THEM IN THE RIGHT ORDER?

thank you so much.

 

Last edited: Jun 5, 2016

Here's a tip that should help.

What you want 2 do, is to split the initial chord into 1 note per channel. As many #s as needed.

From thereonin, you can apply increasing delays to successive channels.

Then, downmix to 1 channel, if desired.

http://thepiz.org/plugins/?p=pizmidi could also have a look@.

 

Yes, you had the same thoughts on it as I did.

Actually I ask how to do this in one of this frameworks in real.

I need the right objects and the right parameter/cable route.

The problem with pizmidi midiStrum is, that it has a bug and therefore only allows down-strums (only simple mode, complex mode is broken).

So I want to build it on my own. Unfortunately the documentation situation off all frameworks is exiguous.

So does anybody has a working example for me?

 

Does anybody knows why I get no midi out signal from a SynthEdit compiled VST, even I place a midi out object in the source?

 

If I remember correctly synth edit is 32 bit only

 

Reaktor gives me very strange results. I guess because it's actually monophonic. If I go in with a chord and further to a merge object, it seems it don't like this. Cascading delay objects are strange to handle too.

 

All Reaktor blocks are monophonic, unless you begin to hint it. This does not mean that everything in Reaktor is monophonic (Synth like Razor etc.). The idea of Reaktor is a virtual classic modular synth system, which are mostly monophonic in there hardware versions.

 

Have you tried Max and Flowstone?
Both very stable, well documented and have active communities.

 

The problem with Reaktor is, that it 'smells' monophonic even by building it from the ground up.

I reviewed all existing solutions from the Reaktor user base. They are all taking one midi note (monophonic) and then generate chords/strums. And this is not what I want, since I don't wanna predefine chords (realtime chord in/out).

Also note on, note off, and gate are strictly separated objects. That's not a low level framework to quickly build that shit.

SynthEdit seems to be crap when it comes to midi thru.

Max is no option since I need it in Cubase.

Flowstone seems promising. Will it generate VST's and is it free?

Meanwhile I am near in Plogue Bidule, but I need some 'math work' to build cascading delays.

I need a 'dispached event' when a note was played to count up/cascade the delay-times of the following note/string of a chord. That's the only last problem.

...any help is appreciated.

 

Last edited: Jun 4, 2016

if you are a programmer, maybe you can try to learn SuperCollider language.
It's amazing what you can do with few lines of code.

 

Sorry, I don't want to learn a new language.

 

Hey @Jasmine
It is actually easier to create strumming chords from a single note then strum from chord input. MIDI doesn't understand the concept of chords. All notes are send one after the other, though with just a tiny delay, so you need to make yure the user can input the number of notes that your tool should accept as a chord (maybe even with additional timing settings and a zero detection).

However, Flowstone does create VST plugins (both effects and insturments), is very good for prototyping, but is not free. There's a demo that you can use to test if it is what you need. The plugins you create with the demo work for about 5 minutes; for your midi strummer it should be enough to see if it works.
The Flowstone community is pretty helpful (I'm also active there)

I'm currently thinking about a way to realize the strummer in Flowstone (The strumming is easy, but the chord detection could be more difficult). If I'm successful, I'm happy to share the schematic with you.

 

I tested the older version of Flowstone from the sister site just a little bit. My cursor disapeared hovering over objects.
Anyways, if you get something useful let me see it please. Until now I did not found any good info for this special case in the flowstone community. Currently I don't know enough about its midi capabilities. First look, I guess not so much midi objects- but it's Ruby interface seems great.

In my concept the strumming-spread/strum time has to be variable /automateable, which works very well when I use bidule + pizMidi midiStrum.dll + CC automation. It's actually for a physical modeled harp (more then six strings/notes), which will go funky (short strum times) from song part to song part and then sometimes glissando (very long strum times). I trigger it with Cubases chord pads live.

Important (my approach): If you come in with a chord, you spilt the chord up to its individual notes. That's much easier then chord detection. Once you have the single notes, you delay them programmatically. As side-effect you can change the order of the delay-times for the individual notes to switch between up and down-strums (ideally via CC or a keyswitch).
In this scenario it doesn't matter which chord you play. You always get a strummed chord, even across multiple octaves, with doubled root notes, tensions, inversions etc..

As I said with PizMidi this works only in one strumming direction, because of a bug in midiStrum...but this construct produces the best variable strums ever seen so far, incl. smooth velocity curves in real-time. Once one track is recorded, it's very easy to fine tune /overdub it a little- with some more open chords. Then finally automating params of the instrument itself adds another dimension of articulation options. But that's another story.

Before, I tested all other strumming-solutions (with midi out), from Real Guitar over Guitarist and Arpeggiators to other 'exotic approaches'.

He does it with his hands (and some special hand made electronic) since decades ...>awesome.

 

Last edited: Jun 5, 2016

Well it works on 'Win 64' for me, except midi thru. Looking to the internet, this seems to be a problem of SynthEdit in general.

 

Last edited: Jun 13, 2016

I ended up with a combination of various PizMidi modules and Plogue Bidule components.
It's actually a pretty tough job- with all the requirements and options, but it works as expected. Continuing fine-tuning....

 

Last edited: Jun 7, 2016

I never said it's not possible in Reaktor. I know Reaktor since its beginning, but never dived deep in it, until the last weeks.
If you research in detail and dive into the code....

https://www.native-instruments.com/...r-library/all/all/all/all/strum/latest/1/all/

...you will see there is a reason why developers have to hint this monophonic/polyphonic things with there macros, but fail to make it realtime- only can do it with predefined notes/chords related to custom strummings.

Reaktor has no low level approach to archive this things in realtime- without 'hardcoded' notes/chords.

It is not designed for such kind of stuff (low level midi developments).

Since I know a pratical midi routing and know the needed midi objects/components, I'm also interested to do the same in SynthEdit or FlowStone.

Just for fun.

Any advice/tip is appreciated. I love to talk about it and realize some stuff. Thank you!

 

Last edited: Jun 8, 2016