I totally hear you on that. That's basically what I'm currently doing. I concentrate mainly on the mix, getting my eq and compression tweaked right on each channel/track using a spectral analyzer to make sure there aren't too many frequency conflicts, then once I'm satisfied with that, I move onto the overall master which I often use very subtle effects. I often just use stereo imaging, a little dynamic eq, eq and exciter with subtle compression. I haven't delved into these analogue plugins yet, so I'll have to experiment with that first before I consider hardware.

 

Last edited: May 5, 2016

Agreed. I probably forgot to mention that Kleen Kutz started out with the mix before anything. Eq, compression on separate channels etc. and once the mix was complete he moved onto mastering and using a hardware device to add that analogue sound as well as some solid slate plugins.

 

Neither have I.. until I read it in this thread. And now you have too. So I thought I'd advise the OP not to do so. And there should be no compressor or anything at all on the master bus prior to the mixdown either. Global processing is in the category of mastering. The mix should be recorded and summoned again so master bus compression, eq, etc. can be a discrete process.

 

if you mix without compression on the master channel then only to realize you need to compress the mix later >>> adding after the fact will change the whole balance and mix decisions you made prior... its very common to mix into a compressor

 

I hear you. I currently rarely use a compressor plugin on the master bus, because I find it destroys the mix. Since I already compress on separate channels, it tends to be enough compression already. I suppose there are probably many different ways to make a mix work with an overall compressor on the master if you give enough headroom. I haven't experimented with that concept as of yet.

 

You don't mix into a globally altered spectrum. If it's common.. it's a common mistake.

 

i mix into hardware bro not plugins...... and if its a common mistake as you claim, then most every record you've ever listened is a mistake my friend ;)

 

You keep doing how you do. The bottom line is you attempt to simultaneously mix and master your own material all in one go.. which is a mistake. They are two separate projects and are to be handled as such for a reason.

 

compression is not mastering my friend!!! its a tool as ive been doin this for over 20 years and not missed a pay check yet ;) carry on !

 

It pertains to mastering when you are using it "globally".. as you claim to do before you even start "mixing".. go to school. You don't want global gain reduction applied to what's supposed to be a mix.. that should be nowhere near peaking or needing to be truncated prior to the mastering stage.

 

Last edited: May 5, 2016

Their is no wrong way to make a sound yo! if it sounds good it sounds good ;) as for School is for the likes of you

 

Last edited: May 7, 2016

Always a m-f trying to iceskate uphill..

 

The only thing I have on my master bus when I'm in the mix producing my track, is a very Gentle limiter. Once the mix is completely done is when I start adding to the master bus for mastering. You make perfect sense though. Nothing should be really effecting the overall mix until you are actually done the mix. That's a logical stage by stage process.

What would your thoughts be on my gentle limiter on the master bus?

 

Yeah you right! write him a ticket!!! he did it wrong!!!! hahaha

no of-course not, did it sound good, it is good.

master bus compression tends to lift (electric/acoustic) guitars and vocals a little more with a high-pass in place for the bass,
so why wouldn't you adjust that with the channels itself??

 

Last edited: May 5, 2016

You showed up a little late. You'd have to trace back. The discussion wasn't about "what" to apply. It's about "when" to apply master bus compression. It should not be applied as a pre to the "mixing" stage.

 

When you're doing your mix the thing is you never want to be trapped. Therefore you should never have anything on your master bus because it's a dead end that no channel can avoid. If you find a calling for there to be any global effect/s on the overall mix prior to rendering it for mastering you want to send all single and bus channels to a global mixbus, or submix as some like to say. This doesn't trap you, and gives you the ability dodge this global channel even if there's only one channel you don't want hitting it. A global limiter should not be necessary before rendering your mixdown because your mix should be nowhere close to peaking. As far as headroom goes.. lowering the input signal (not the output) of any channel/s is how you get it. The DAW faders are output.. they don't change the sum of headroom. So when you're mixing, to get that initial relationship of gain levels you want between all your tracks you want to alter the input source such as lowering the gain on the audio objects directly. If you have any midi instruments up.. set their levels with the parameter/s on the instrument and not your channel faders. {An important note is that if you have any random fx features that occur with any of the midi instruments you should certainly bounce those particular instruments to audio before mixing. And if you have any audio channels with FX plugins that perform any random functions you should bounce those first too.} Do your mixing on the single channels and split bus channels (drum bus, vocal bus, etc.) with nothing at all on the main master out from start to finish. Remember if you route 5 things to the same bus channel and 4 of them wind up sounding damn good.. take the 1 that's not sounding right back out of that bus. And now it's free again.. not forced to conform with everything else in a string of parameters that could have been on the master bus during the mixing stage.. ya dig. When you have your mix sounding as best as you think you can get it without applying loads of gain reduction to any bus channels you are ready to render your stems for "mastering". If you are going to master the mix yourself you can pull your processed stems up for a fresh mastering project. And this is when people are supposed to do all the fun global bus compression, saturation, and limiting. That's right, the maximization process is supposed to begin at the mastering stage. And the beauty of it is you still get to cut a loud version of your own song. You have your processed stems in good form if you need to make subtle Q adjustments. And they are in appropriate form for you to send off to be mastered elsewhere. People who send a single truncated stereo file off to be "mastered" are either fooling themselves or being fooled by the so-called engineer. If it's a single file of the whole mix they'll collect their money, run it through the toaster real fast, and send it right back to them. This music stuff is not an all in one go thing. It takes time and patience, and you have to be meticulous in how you go about it. Even the way you label tracks, files, channels, and keep the creative work environment looking neat plays a key part. And that part alone sometimes takes longer than it does for someone to put a simplistic arrangement together, push it with a limiter, and be playing it in their car. But that's about as far as projects like that usually go. When you see albums selling internationally it's not surprising to see 10-20 names incorporated with a single song on the album. It takes times even with many people working on it. If producing is your passion you only need one hit to make it big. So I personally think it's best to craft 5 songs meticulously so the effort shows and people think wow instead of throwing together 50 rapidly. I recommend that if you're going to carry the task of mixing/mastering your own music in addition to that. Get the coffee going, spend a month if it takes, and get you an awesome composition in your resume. However you go about it I can tell you'll be giving it your all. And I'll look forward to hearing something great by you. Good luck on your journey.

 

Last edited: May 5, 2016

From what you've laid out in mixing and mastering, I would say I'm mostly running along those lines. The only major part I need to correct is my hard limiting, which I tend to do with my mix. I let my levels go really high in the initial mix, when that should come after I'm done the production and I'm ready for the next mastering stage.The stage by stage you explained so far, identifies with my way of mixing and mastering otherwise. I start with the mix, (with only the gentle limiter present on the master) and make sure to tweak everything the best way I can with no frequency conflicts, then I extract each track/channel and start a whole new project with my audio files for mastering. Each channel (audio file) is touched up and then the main master bus is loaded with the desired effects, stereo imaging, eq, etc.

As for the analogue, I still have to introduce that and work with it. If the plugin emulators don't have the desired effect, I suppose I will turn to something hardware.

Thanks for the info man! So far your info mostly identifies with the way I'm working, so that makes me feel confident I'm on the right track.

 

Sure thing.. now go kick some ass! have a good one bro.

 

Lol. The 3 ways to use a mix-buss compressor are the following :

#1. Put it on near the end of the mix.
#2. Put it on from the beginning of the mix.
#3. Don't put it on at all.

 

An always another M-F stuck on the bench without the know how to even putem on ;) lol