Hi


I m trying to study harmony but I have some question about it:

I hear some songs which for example if they are in C major so should follow the diatonic scale, ( C dm Em F G Am Bdim)

But in the song in some part the add this chords: Eb(III b) , Ab (VI b), Bb (VII b), or Bm (VIIm) and they make the song sound refreshing and cool and they back to diatonic scale again so is like they add tension to the song on that parts, also sometimes they use 7th but I already know that 7th make more tension,

so what I d like to know is If I study more harmony (advance one) I gonna understand when i can use that chords cause when i composing a song and I try to add this chords but doesnt sound right so maybe I have to learn more harmony to know in which Degrees on the scale I should change to then and in which Degree back,

what do you think?


I left here some samples song where they use these kind of chords:

thanks

 

Last edited: Apr 1, 2016

Hello. No clue colleague, I'm sorry. But the first song is good. who is/are the composer(s) and interpreter(s)?

 

Use the circle of fifth (and forth). The chords from the scales next to C in the circle (that would be F and G) and their relative minor (Dm, Am for C and Em for G) can be either mixed in or they can be used for chord substituion. They are close enought, they will create tension without sounding wrong if you choose well the ones you borrow.

 

It could be that the composer modulates to the parallel minor scale of C Major, C Minor = C D Eb F G Ab Bb C?

 

I'm no expert. I own a book by Ricky Rooksby on songwriting which more or less tells you that music would be quite boring if you could just use diatonic chords for a song. Of course you can introduce non-diatonic chords in your compositions. Some of them will fit in better than others. And of course, there's always the option to create a modulation so as to, for instance, introduce a change in tonality from one section of the song into another, and then go back to the original. Life is short and art is long... There's so much to learn.

 

Dont forget the "rule of the thirds".
Any chord, either major or minor, can be followed by any chord, either major or minor, as far as the root notes are either a major or minor third apart.
Basically, a C chord can be followed by an E major or minor chord, but also by an Eb major or minor chord, or by an A minor or major chord. but also by an Ab major on minor chord.
And you can build very long sequences this way1

 

Abba were quite good at doing this, check out some of their songbooks! ... Chords used below (Key of D minor/F major) are Dm C#dim F C Gm Bb Db Eb Bb/F

 

Last edited: Apr 1, 2016

Who told you that?

That will depend on what you understand by the word "learning".


For starters I would suggest that you question your preconceived notions about music and also about what theory is.


Hearing is key, reading theories by itself won't get you anywhere.. and context is everything.

 

How about this one?

 

I would suggest you continue studying harmony. There are more chords you can use in the C scale than just ( C dm Em F G Am Bdim)
There are Secondary dominants (Variations of ii). N6 chords (flatted 2nd) Embelishing chords few 6th chord variations etc etc.

 

"Use different chords on a diatonic scale"

A clear way to think about this without going through "borrowed chords/modulations" and other derivative theories is just plainly looking at the fact that those outside chords belong to another diatonic scale, as long as they are diatonic by themselves or as small progressions.

 

...and in theory (and practice), they cease to be within the primary diatonic scale (C major).

Secondary dominants, borrowed chords and altered chords are just terms that are used as shortcuts to mention temporary deviations from the main diatonic scale in use. Still, they are all outside that main/primary diatonic scale and belong to other diatonic scales (except altered chords, those aren't diatonic).

 

Hes mentioning flatted chords, minor variations etc. His is not asking the right question based on the lack of knowledge. Those extra chords he mentions are all chromatic. I was just trying to explain to miguel 88 that there is a more sophistic chord vocabulary out there and it might be of his benefit to continue learning if intrigued by those questions. Ultimately Miguel what im trying to say is that there is a more extensive answer than " They Belong to other Scales" n that is the study of harmony. I also have to clarify that from a performers stand point this theory is not as important as getting to the right keys the easiest as possible. N thats where you get simple answers that dont make any sense in a harmonic point view.

 

In the EarMaster, there is a chord progression with below order:

IVm - V - I

As you know, it does not belong to well-known scales (like Major and its modes, harmonic and melodic minor, pentatonic, blues).

The only scale that above chord progression fits well (all of the notes of the above chords are the tones of this scale) is "Major Bebop". Is this scale being used in the western popular musics? And anything you'd think that's useful for these kinds of progressions or scales (like diminished or octatonic ones)?

Thanks so much!

 

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2016

Excellent song for studying harmony

Just watch the circle of fifths and follow those beautiful chords and key changes.
Then you can see that many rules are broken, but still sounds right!

 

Also great video...

 

Is from Yasutaka nakata is a famous japanese producer who make j pop and techno, I like his style cause he use a lot of jazzy chords like add 7th and no diatonic chords, I recomend look the band Perfume is his most famous produccion from him

 

harmony doesn't exist without dissonance.

so study dissonance too it is not a bad idea.

 

Finally I found a person talking about the dissonance.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2016

Comparing consonance and dissonance is like this:





We can try to enjoy the second one (how, I don't know yet). But lets first learn the consonance harmony.