What matters more is which cans have the most naturally flat frequency response. Also, I've never seen an engineer using HD650s, I have however on several occasions seen mastering and mix engineers using the HD600s. Remember just because the 650s have a more hyped low end doesn't mean they are better. 9/10 the reason why headphone mixes are off is due to hyped low end... Lastly I don't know what world you live in, but the HD600s have been around almost a decade longer than the 650s and they are cheaper...

 

Internet world I think it's about supply and demand, most retailers stock the newer product. According to Sonarworks website their plugin makes all supported headphones interchangeable, i.e. they will all be equally flat post-plugin. In other words, HD650+Sonarworks will have a flatter response than HD600 without Sonarworks, that is how I read it. And like I said 75% of my headphone use is listening to recorded music, so a sprinkling of fairy-dust would be useful to me. I just need to find out if everything is working like Sonarworks says it is, and then it is a Win-Win situation for me

PS I understand HD600 is better without Sonarworks, but that is not what I am asking With Sonarworks they should both be equal right?

 

Last edited: Mar 10, 2016

If you have the place and money I'd rather invest into some proper Acoustic Treatment

 

Short answer. No. BTW, Sweetwater is where I buy my headphones. The HD600 are in stock and cheaper.

 

100000000000000000xs better investment than Sonarworks.

 

Do they ship to Europe? Cheaper is good!

 

Last edited: Mar 10, 2016

I think most people know that ... but ...

1. It's expensive
2. Some people don't own high-quality monitors
3. Some people don't control the space where they live, i.e. rent agreement stipulates you are not even allowed to redecorate, never mind apply acoustic treatment
4. Some people may have noise restrictions
5. Some people travel a lot

So people interested in Sonarworks may have other considerations, and others like me just want to know the difference between Headphone A and Headphone B after the plugin has been applied I am not ruling out the HD600, merely trying to ascertain whether the old adage killing two birds with one stone is applicable in this case

 

Last edited: Mar 10, 2016

Okay so this Sonarworks thing looks cool, plus it seems to handle my headphones (a pair of HD 25 II +, cool for djing, not so much for mixing, so this tool might be usefull).
Just a couple of questions though : does anyone knows if it's worth doing the procedure with a HD 25 II + ? And is this software easy to use ? I don't really want to send my headphones to Latvia, I mean I use them every day, anyone has ever had a try with this thing ?

 

You can download the 21 day trial and give us a review The Sonarworks website claim to be able to improve even the HD800, yet some are disputing whether they could in fact enhance any model. I think we need some real-world feedback.

 

Last edited: Mar 10, 2016

yeah you're right, I'll give it a try and give you all my feedbacks...

 

You could have a look here too ..

http://sonarworks.com/2016/02/can-you-mix-effectively-on-headphones-part-1/

http://sonarworks.com/2016/02/learn-how-to-create-mixes-with-headphones-that-translate/

 

Hey Enoch, What's your take on the 598? I find them SUPERB to mix and master. I prefer them over my Tannoy monitors.

 

So I've been trying reference 3 with my HD 25, and it's really cool, I think I'm gonna go all the way through the try and then buy it.
It makes my headphone who embelished things a lot, very reliable, much more closer to what I hear and my monitors (Adam A5X in a treated room). Monitoring at night, as I am an insomniac, was a problem, I think with this I have a solution.
It's very easy to configure (well my model was in the list, so...), but you can still tweak the base configuration they give you, change the calibration, you can have different rendering (simulate this kind of headphone, this kind of monitors) and it's pretty convincing (I already have the focusrite VRM for that, but reference 3 runs as vst in my daw, so it's complementary).
No problem running it whatsoever in win 7 x64, a lttle hungry in dsp ressources, but no big deal.

Thanks for the tips !

 

Thanks for the positive review. How about Sonarworks claim that two different pairs of headphones will sound similar? Do you think it would be possible?

 

On paper maybe....But with earbuds, or really shitty headphones I don't think so. You have to have pretty good hardware to be able to get to flat frequency response through software use, it's not that easy to acomplish. There's an emulation of the seinh 650 in the soft, and it's exactly the response curve I have with mine (the HD 25) and reference 3 running(with the flat response curve in Reference 3, which you can change), I go from one to the other, no difference, they both have the same flat response.
But I guess it's because mine is already a very good headphone with a bunch of processing going on to give a rounder bass response and some brighter highs, which you can cancel through a smart use of a soft, like they do. So with a middle range price headphone, they can probably always provide a prefectly flat response curve, because it's already pretty good harware. I'm not sure it's possible with any headphone...
But the modelling of the headphone they give in reference 3 is pretty sweet. Beside the 650, there's the beat by Dre, which has a very big bass response, and the modelling is really convincing.
Smart peoples and good use of accoustic theory huh...Sky is the limit...
And if anyone wants to give it a try, you just need an email to get a three weeks try, with no limitation in the soft use...
And for those who wonder this is a very different product than say the wave NX or redline Monitor which let you get your headphone to sound close to your monitor setup (angle, distance, etc), Reference 3 is for modelling headphones with flat frequency response, even if you can also in addition do a lot of other things..

 

Last edited: Mar 16, 2016

OK thanks man I'm still thinking about HD600 v HD650, and as I mentioned previously 75% of the time will be spent listening to commercially recorded music, which puts the HD650 slightly ahead in pole position. I have ATH-M50 for tracking, so I just need something for rough demo mixes.

Oh yeah, how about having the NX plugin following the Sonarworks plugin? In theory it should work great. Have you tested it?

 

Last edited: Mar 16, 2016

I was just trying that out, I think for monitoring on headphone ref3 and Nx is the way to go. They both add a bit of dsp use, but oh well, my computer can take it. If I want to work on headphones and not have to change everything I did once I turn on my monitors, it's all I can think of with my budget right now, if I don't want to serously upgrade my hardware.
If I could afford it I would definetly go for the HD650 (on paper it looks slightly better than the HD600 imo), it can be used for just about anything specialy with sonarworks tool which you can use outside your daw with the VB Cable thing...
Maybe you can have a rought idea of what the 650 would sound like by trying the simulate function in ref3, choosing the HD650 simulation, but with the ATH_M50 calibrated to flat, since they have it in the models list they propose in the software.
The simulate function of Reference 3 is interestingly versatile, they have 7 models, and when you activate the function you can pick 4 of them that you browse through as you listen. You can go from there to your calibrated headphone with three differents reference curves (for example I have a flat, a prededined with a generous bass response, and a third that simulates B&K 1974 hifi curve) and see how they all work with each others : the flat reference with the HD650, a strong bass response with the "japanese white cone monitor" they propose, or the Beat, whatever...Differents response curves in different environnements, really nice...

 

It's actually the newer M50X that they have profiled which has a slightly different sound signature (I think).

 

Thinking about buying some AKG K701's and pairing it with Sonarworks for mixing and on the go. Don't have a large budget. I've read some reviews the natural bass on the 701 is somewhat soft/weak, but Sonarworks can fix this? maybe I can manually tune the eq myself to my liking too.