How come we dont really see major sharp chords? that may be a silly question but im just curious.. except F sharp?

 

Last edited: Feb 19, 2016

My only suggestion is: listen to the singer voice carefully, the way he/she sings the lyrics, again and again... something will happen.

 

Sharps an flats are just names, conventions. All notes are the same, don't get stuck on their names.. it doesn't really matter. THe intervals between them is what matters.

A chord is given by it's root note followed by the structure. For instance Am7 is A=root note m7=structure.

That means you'll have sharp and flat chords too no matter what their structure is.

 

Ok trying to grasp that still.. Like when we a see a song that is written in the key of Ab Major ? Also is Ab major the same key as G sharp major and why would you decide to call it one over the other when writing in on paper.. I think i seen an answer for that before but cannot remember..

thanks

 

If you want to learn about conventions you'll really have to read a book. There is no short answer. You get an answer, then you have another question and this can go on and on... you'll end up even more confused if you try learning this way, trust me.

For practical matters, the intervals between the notes are the important thing. Note names are there to give you a reference of pitch. Enharmonics (F# = Gb and all that) have rules but again, it's all convention for historical reasons, not really "listenable" reasons since those notes are exactly the same sounding pitch (they weren't in the past and in other division systems but don't worry about it).

 

BTW, if you're going to use sheet music you'll have to understand enharmonicity.

If you're going to use pianoroll, you can choose to have all sharps or all flats and avoid redundancy. Personally I use all sharps when using pianoroll.

 

Finally!! A nice topic.

 

It can all be a bit confusing, and that is why as a non-keyboard player I transpose my keyboard to C/Am = Tonic. Then all I have to think about is 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 (see charts below). The chords of any key, and the notes of any scale will always be in the same position, i.e. C = 1 = Root = Tonic = Home for major keys, or A = 1 = Root = Tonic = Home for minor keys. All songs want to come home to the Tonic, so this greatly simplifies things if your keyboard is transposed. Just learn all the chord extensions and inversions in the Key of C.

OK, I am aware that this is not a perfect situation and that it is only a stopgap solution, but it gets the job done when composing! I am also trying to learn all the other keys, and how to play the keyboard in general, but it takes time .. lot's of time In the meantime, I can bang out chord progressions in any key using fancy chords, in next to no time.

 

Last edited: Feb 19, 2016

Ha, I feel we are almost on the same page, I do the same thing with transposition, but was confused about transposing the minor keys.. its a great little hack/cheat but not ideal for learning.. I have started to study theory a little more intensely, I got a couple of books and been watching youtube video, just early days but somethings starting to make sense..

 

Hey Baxter, educational, over the top kinda silly, and one of the hardest things I think I have ever watched. It had ME mentally gagging.

Hey Zenarcist...if I sing a single word, or better yet, just one syllable and hold it for 4 measures, that doesn't dictate the rhythm at all, but it can inform of the chord structure. If I have time after dog walking, playing with my daughter who is on holiday, making lunch, cleaning the bathrooms and dusting the living room, I will if there is any time left, record an example.

 

Haha I felt the same about that video now and the first time I saw, it makes me think violently lol..

And yes an example would be great... Finding a chord structure based on a vocal seems to be quite tough, even finding the key as there could be quite a few options right?

 

It is a sustained note, so all the rhythmic information (or lack of it) is there. You will also derive rhythm from your percussion section. Sometimes it is useful to enter a phrase rhythmically via the keyboard using a single pitch to emphasize the rhythm, and edit the pitch information later in the DAW. As mentioned above there is no right way or wrong way to do things, it's what works for you personally that counts. I have enough tricks in my locker to knock out this stuff in a matter of minutes. Might not work for you though

 

Last edited: Feb 19, 2016

Try a composition in C major. For the melody C=1, the Tonic and G=5, the Dominant. After you got the melody try some chords, it's simple cos they will all be on the white keys. C=(c,e,g), Dmin=(d,f,a), Emin=(e,g,b), F=(f,a,c), G=(g,b,d), Amin=(a,c,e).

If this method works for you, try to use the transpose function on your keyboard and set C to another key, for example let's say G. Now play the exact same white keys as you did above and you are now in the Key of G.

At the basic level there are six chord options for every key. Just keep it simple until you get the hang of it. Once you've got the basics nailed, you will soon be flying and adding chord extensions and inversions, etc.

For minor keys, see the chart above. You use the same chords (white keys) except A becomes the Tonic or 1 key.

 

Last edited: Feb 19, 2016

Thanks yes I am already onto inversions and extensions and found it was something I was doing naturally for years but never really knew what chords i was playing.. I knew how to transpose the keys to the major key i wanted but it was only tonight I realized doing it to A will give you your minor keys on the all white keys also so thanks for that tip!

 

Once you have mastered the C/Am key you are halfway there, the fog will soon lift Everything else is complexity, but nothing is new, as can be demonstrated by transposing the other keys onto the white notes.

For me the Key of C is like the 1 Times Multiplication Table, it's easy to remember and provides all the tools for further study, but it's also only the beginning.

Anyway, it sounds like all your problems have been solved, and you are ready to forge ahead

 

Last edited: Feb 19, 2016

Yup its a great little trick I wish had years earlier, but here I am grateful for it now.. Now I just need to mentally note the chords i play each time because I really want to be able to tell chords and keys by ear.. But thats the long haul i guess.

 

It scares me how much weight is laid on the theory, the "math". Do you all really work in such tight corsets? Don't get me wrong, I know how to play chords either on piano or guitar. I know about inversions, sharps and flats, the circle of fifth, and some more of the boring stuff. But I don't really care. In the end there's only one thing really important: Your ear. If it sounds good, it is good. And if it is good, it's right. In fact, I couldn't even tell the key of my songs without quite some effort.
When I play to vocals, the most interesting part is the feelings. You can even start with just a bass note per bar to get into the right mood, the right groove, the right athmosphere. The rest is then building up upon it (which is surprisingly easy). Or am I the only one that works in this way?

 

I think of chords relatively, I ii iii IV V vi etc., and I is always home. That is why I like to browse around the Hooktheory website, cos they speak my language. When I look at well-known melodies I only see 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and I immediately relate to the white keys on my keyboard C D E F G A B C.

 

Last edited: Feb 19, 2016

This is how ive worked for the last 10 plus years. Albeit not much on your process with vocals.. Ive played by ear, and have had some successful songs, that even I didnt know what key they where in.. They always made musical sense to the ear which is all that matters yes.. But now I am at a stage where i feel curious to know the theory and I feel I need it to expand and open up other avenues.

When sitting with a singer in the room, who has the vocal melody partially down I know the bass note thing can work but it might not inspire them so much..

 

Actually you are using music theory, but without realizing it. And don't underestimate the effects of a lifetime spent listening to music, you already have a formidable built-in music encyclopedia inside your brain

Once you know the theory it becomes invisible, you never give it a second thought. It is all down to what sounds right. Personally, I find it helpful to sometimes look at things in a different way, like trying to understand how other people do things, or if I have a specific mood in mind, but it is trivial to switch between theory mode and improvisation mode.

Now imagine you go on a trip to Paris. Once you know where the hotel is (the Tonic) and the Eiffel Tower (let's call in the Dominant), you can then go around and have a lot of fun travelling on the Metro (chord progressions?), but a quick look at the map (music theory) is always advisable before you set off

 

Last edited: Feb 19, 2016