Just to put the following into perspective: I listen electronic music since I was 15, now I'm 35 and a DJ/producer and reading taskforce & Adrianus' comments, looks like we are on the same side (concerning music preferences), BUT...

You (like everybody else for that matter) tend to miss the essential purpose of the music: to entertain.
How many of you (myself included) look back to some music you used to listen as a teenager and say "dude, some of that music I used to love was really f-ed up!" I don't mean everything, but some of this was. And we used to listen to it because we did not know much about music and that was enough. And it was OK, it was entertaining. Now we probably listen with more sophisticated sounds without having the same intense sensation as we used to have back then from hardcore rave, or some other utter sh!t

Back to Tiesto: you don't need to go every weekend to the club to enjoy his music; you don't need to be a professional clubber; you don't need to keep it with the ever changing trends; it's really a matter of "click or not". It's not "maybe" or "almost good". It works or not - but usually it works. Because you see, what we call "good music" it's nothing more than a music we used to listen to a very long period of time, music we have culture in. We just have an aesthetic based on our peers and our personal experiences which defines our choice. It's like we form our culinary taste (probably each one of us will hate a lot of stuff considered delicacy by other people around the world). Jazz used to be blamed "the Devil's music" by the white people back in the days. Classical music perhaps was the same 1000 years ago. I can't logically agree that EDM is better or worse than warehouse? Warehouse was really crappy according to most of the 80s people. It was a handful of people enjoying that music. Acid? the same.

I would even go further in explaining public's preference for "EDM" by observing everyone's need for instant gratification - but this is work in progress self research so I'll write just this: no one needs preludes anymore. EDM is just a rollercoaster: ups and downs, sort of "wham, bam, thank you ma'am".

At this point I strongly suspect you are trolling. EDM started more or less with Swedish House Mafia. Axwell (which is an established member of the aforementioned group) is making arguably good music since the early 2000s. EDM started when? In 2010s? And you are so confident telling that it was started by n00bs? FFS mate...

I gave that example to show Adrianus what a minimalistic track would be (and it is not at all pure minimal techno) as opposed to the 2015's progresssive "Acamar" which he called "minimal".

 

So will you make up your mind when did it start?
Until then EDM to me is a failed attempt by noobs to make house music.... Never listened to Swedish house Mafia, nor Axwell, just looked him up and found a track I remember, that is "I found you" and guess what? No wonder a noob is making EDM now, because that track is clearly the crap that started drifting all music into EDM garbage, it's not solely to blame, but represents all tracks of that era, production wise it's utter garbage, sounds like a demo, I would say to him go finish mixing it boy, then come back and we will talk about releasing it and lose the sh** parts in it, don't be lazy...
That track exactly represents the start of all noobs doing music, it starts with a catchy loop, then a noob doesn't know what else to do, so fills in it with a random crap he comes up with and calls it a song, when I've mentioned in one of the post "labels negligence", that's exactly what I've meant, under normal circumstances no one would have allowed him to release such a half baked track and labels allowing it to happen opened the doors for all noobs to do whatever they want, with no quality control whatsoever, the born of EDM, noobs failed attempt at making house.
You clearly like it... we won't found a common ground, I would put them all in concentration camps.

First track sounds like a house track, but cheap, like most of that era, a guy couldn't afford better drum machines or samplers, that's common at that time, tracks having the soul, but being undernourished
Second doesn't sound at all like trance, come on, organ? organ is the staple of house, lol and that whole funky groove is the House and it's clearly progressive.

 

Last edited: Feb 15, 2016

talking of progressive Gat Decors "Passion" is still played today nearly 25 years later!

 

I was telling you that a man that used to make various house music styles since 2000s, was a the roots of the EDM trend 10 years later. It's really that hard to understand? I wanted to point out that he was definitely not a n00b.

Were you living under a rock in the last decade? I mean is OK to listen what you like. Totally agree with that. But opinions, my friend, you can't have pertinent opinions as long as you don't know what we are talking about. And you don't know what we are talking about. You only know that you don't like and that's it. Missing an artist here, missing one there and your entire capacity to offer a relatively objective opinion goes to dust.

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This is my last intervention on this topic: Take any electronic music producer, it will fit in one of the following categories... You will find ones that were good in a style, for a couple of years then stopped producing (Creamer & Stephane K). You will find ones that keep producing the same style and emerge on the market again and again when their style is en vogue (MK, Dubfire). And you will find ones that are on the center of attention year by year because they adapt to the new trends.

 

It is good to know I am not alone in my disillusionment of what has happened to "progressive house".

What we get now under the name progressive house seems to be what was "tech-house". Some of it is okay, but it is often at risk of being extremely boring and containing little musical skill, in my opinion, when compared to the hey-days of the progressive house genre I was embedded into.

True, some of it back then laid between progressive and trance, but I find most of the new "progressive house" to be very basic, quite dull, monotonous, not really going anywhere. It is much more minimalistic I suppose.

It does not even remotely compare to the likes of Spooky - Little Bullet, most of Brian Transeu's remixes in the 1994-2001 period, Brothers in Rhythm remixes of all sorts, Blue Amazon, the stuff on Stress Records, Jackpot, etc.

It is a million miles away from the lush strings, swirling top lines, pianos, acid, stutter vocals that I recognise as progressive house. Progressive house used to take you on a real musical journey. That, to me, was the "progression", the wonderful interconnection of technical musicianship, of layers, that literally took your mind on a wonderful trip.

Take for example Sunday Club's "Paladian Dawn" or their other work "Winds of Change". Wow, what master pieces - in my view.

Today's "progressive house" is a bit of a sick joke (to me) when compared to that kind of material. It isn't all bad, I still buy some new mixes, like the Global Underground CD mixes and John Digweed's 'Bedrock' compilations......but it just isn't the same, I struggle to get into some of it.

But I am sure others like it, and that's the thing, everybody has different views and experiences to go off. They may have had the best times of their lives with the stuff in the last few years. They know all the new names, whereas I am now a bit of a dinosaur who hardly recognises any noteworthy names now. (I have lost interest in it I suppose, more than there being none around).

I guess times move on. Hopefully things will become more "tuneful" and intricate again as things continue to evolve.

Some of my favourites:

One of the best musical pieces of all time, in my opinion:

Some may say it verges on trance, or is trance, but I would disagree. I think it is structurally, sonically and otherwise progressive house. It was at the time, especially compared to mainstream trance of the likes played at Ministry of Sound and Gatecrasher, or on the Reactivate series.

 

Showing my age a bit but I remember when this was considered a progressive house:

 

Did anyone notice the raw "analoque" deep sound all the example songs have?
That's because there were no powerfull laptops and computers in that time to run fruityloops on!
There were hardware synths, samplers and drumcomputers AND Cubase on Atari ST with midi only.
Only the ones that could afford it made music at home or recorded his/her song in an expensive studio. That's why there were a lot of quality releases. When I released my first song in 1996 the record company demanded a DAT recording at 48Khz.
Nowadays everybody with a laptop and a lot of software thinks he/she's a producer. Too many releases equals a lot of crap music.

I think it's called progression?
I'm too old for this shit......

 

During cold war there were a lot of underground house releases, they don't make such a quality underground house anymore, all those computers weakened people's fear and in turn undermined making a good quality underground house.

 

Ah man, the good old days! I remember having my first underground party in this building! Door top right: The progressive room.
Door right under: The Acid Room. The door on the left: The banging room....
I see it didn't survive the test of time.....

 

@reliefsan Hahahah, same feelings here... these tunes make me feel soooooooo old too

But anyway, i m ok with feeling old by listening to the real shit instead of ''edm crap'' made by (wannabe but) untalented noobs supported by promoters, bosses, and/or wealth etc...

And i think this ''edm crap'' is first started with Benny Benassi's Satisfaction in 2002. (Okay it may be a successful track for him but started ruining the actual genres/clubbing scene at the same time) Until Guetta or Axwel or Swedish House Mafia it slowly evolved and finally got discovered by promoters, bosses, and is presented as the pop culture of 2010s. And be called as: '' ''E.D.M.''''

 

Last edited: Feb 15, 2016

Still looking for the image for electronic music ... until then , look at this

 

Seeing the chart, and my own perception, i feel a kind of "dead end" effect.
There is an impression of multiplication, but there is nothing really "new".

Acoustic, electric, electronic... we feel a change. Blending them, it is almost "new".
But what's next ? Neuronal connections's music ? Once you remove those wobble basses from all the music you hear...what's "new" ?

I listen to a LOT of different music. And what i see ?
DnB is back.
Industrial is back.
80's synth pop is back.
...

Why ? Because there is simply NOTHING new to put on the table. After the last (and short) wave of "Everything dubstep/complextro", i see nothing coming. We are back to the "90's party" spirit...without the spirit.

 

mah man!

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also lots of good discussion here especially on @taskforce post, I kind of feel the same way...

I respect everyones opinion here around this topic, genres are a crazy messed up thing and in the end its not really that important. But certain sounds shared a common goal amongst many so when you see that go away it is kind of weird.

The prog house music listeners from 10-15 years ago had a completely different mentality than the prog house music listeners now. Back then, there was imo a more unique concept and image that gave a very mysterious feeling and vibe that some of us related to.

I also feel the same way about oldskool breaks, man when it comes to breaks you just can't make it like the way it used to be anymore, doesn't translate. But fuck going back to those tracks still sound freakin sick!

 

@jayxflash hey mate i agree for the most part , where i beg to differ is where you say "the essential purpose of the music: to entertain. "
While music that entertains is not a bad thing at all, it is not the purpose. Music is art and art is "the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power". It maybe entertaining and it maybe frightening and scary as well. It maybe provocative or it maybe revolutionary. Or all of the above together or none. Certainly the "entertainment" part of music is the weakest form of it. You can have a ton of 50cents entertaining you but cannot have a ton of Pink Floyds and their music is not made to entertain per se. Madonna is or at least was one hell of an entertainer. Artistically though she hasn't sung or written any important songs whatsoever. Neither melodically nor lyrically. You can even say that the fashion behind Madonna and her provocative videos and photoshoots were much more artful than her music itself. For the most part art is there to make our life better by opening our mind heart and soul my friend. Art is there to educate innovate and revolutionize the living status quo. Too many ppl take it lightly. Its not a game bro. Its our life and if we want it to be better we need the deep meanings in songs and the innovating spirit to move forward. To sum it entertainment and music can co-exist but music's purpose is a million other things before entertainment.
Like i said earlier there's nothing bad in a lil mindless tune. Unless this tune is not one but a zillion and their creators are hailed as the "Mozarts" of their dj/producer trade whereas they certainly are NOT. Sign of the times man. I have been a pro musician and a DJ for 30+ years and have been a producer/arranger/composer/studio owner/remixer as well the last 25-26 years. Right now @50 yo i still think there is a future ahead.
We just need to get involved more and deeper imho and strive for the best we can.
Thank you for your time, peace

 

The purpose of House Music is to dance to. The name itself comes from a club "The Warehouse"; music from The Warehouse. Which was shortened to House Music. Hence the term House Music. The music was made by DJ's and musicians on real instruments and hardware, sequencers, drum machines etc, and sampling; lots of sampling.The main idea to make a sound for people to let it go on the dance floor.

The main problem with dance music now is that it has lost the simplicity of the real hardware driven house music. Most new producers sit in front of a DAW and construct a track. It's become more about sound design than the undulating beats and rhythms that make you really want to let go on the dance floor.

The other problem is the greed of big business record labels and the ridiculous copyright laws they have forced on the music community.
Listens to the big tracks from that era and the amount of sampling, beat and rhythm copying that was going on. Think about it and you'll understand it's the biggest obstacle to the natural progression of music. just how impossible would it be for a relatively unknown talent to be able to put something like this out now.

Here's the sample list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_Up_the_Volume_(song)

 

Last edited: Feb 16, 2016

Yep! I do think so too. But I hardly doubt you will like this future...

 

@SyphonX Most likely you are right, you know what they say heheh, it will get even worse before it gets better ... so i 'm prepared

 

Me too brother...

 

@taskforce @SyphonX @jayxflash
Wow, this is a lot to talk about and I have the strong feeling we should have this kind of discussion over a chilled beverage But I'd like to chime in anyways, if you don't mind.
In the early 2000s, I think we found ourselves in some kind of downward spiral from the crazy 90s hype. I remember discussing the set Tiesto did at the opening ceremony of the 2004 olymics with a friend, me being the defender of the underground, and he being the commercially-oriented guy. Of course, I saw it as a big sellout, playing to the mainstream music I wouldn't touch with a bargepole. But his perspective came from a different kind of view. He was a freelance remixer who did all kinds of jobs for major labels, who established his reputation during the eurodance period. To him, the evolution of electronic music at that time was existence-threatening and of course he saw Tiesto's performance from a different perspective, a silver lining that would somehow magically revive those genres on the downfall would allow him to carry on the way he was used to. We now know that didn't happen, but the discussion (art vs. entertainment) is still relevant, as we can see in this very thread. The more I think about it, I no longer see it as a dichotomy. Our music has one purpose above all: to make peope dance. And that somehow is to entertain. Yes, being a dj myself, I like to think of the DJ as an entertainer and an educator, the same way I think a techno track has to be more than a smash hit on the dancefloor. But still, a track that doesn't work on the dancefloor is in the same way a failure like a set that sweeps the dancefloor is.
It's like a constant wave of outgroth of electronic music into pop and commercialism. Early 90s: Eurodance (and maybe rave, but that's the soundtrack of my teenage years and I refuse to throw it under the bus like that ;) ). Late 90s/early 2000s: Trance. Today: EDM.
In the past, those genres all became over-inflated, collapsed and (almost) fell into oblivion. But on the flipside, we always had a solid scene around the core genres that only grew stronger over the years into the current state, which is, from my perspective, a vibrant, diverse and pretty grown-up scene with lots of vigor under the skin. I quite like the way things turned out to be.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2016