I'm currently RME fireface into ableton and then it all stays int he box. I am wondering what life would be like if I got a summing mixer from dangerous or sometrhing similar. I make low fi-ish punkish rock music. I would like to get closer to a 70s rock sound specifically for drums.

 

baby steps... I have UFX, but before a mixer you must think in good preamps.
I have 2 mixers and do not do summing, instead I use good preamps and waves NLS emulating EMI console, which I love.
Had You done with plugins first?
Real console emulation must have many channels and busses and also an easy job for Nebula, had you tested?
Dangerous aren't cheap but they are good.

 

it breaks down into two things, whether you want transformers in your signal path, or belief that voltages get summed more accurately than 1s and 0s.

If you record with good pres (good meaning characterful) then you probably don't want any addidtional saturation from the transformers.
If your recordings are sterile, transformers could help.

Personally, for the ridiculous prices of summing boxes, I'd rather grab a 8 channel vintage analog mixer to at least have some eqs to play with.

Either way the difference will be subtle, its not like "oh 2015 drums", *flip a switch* "1970 drums!".

 

I have a dangerous dbox. It's an amazing tool. Will it make your mixing better? Maybe? 10%?

The one thing I like is it gives me more head room to fuck up with. Like I can make more bad decisions in my mix and they are less noticeable.

Also helps get a bigger low end.

All this being said the past few things I've put out we're all summed in the box.

I'll post some links to cheap summing options later. You can do some fun stuff just to get a feel for if summing is the route for youZ

 

you need tape sim plugins bro. slate digital vtm, or u-he satin, and kick-ass compressors. download everything from audioutopia and you are set for ever

 

I currently have the warm audio wa12 (kick), the GAP pre73 (snare) and the art pro mpaII (over heads). I don't think i utilize them as well as i could because i am lazy. i just keep the connected to the same sound sources at all times. i like to get an idea and hit record so i keep my set up the same at all time. i use the RME pre's for guitars and vocals (sm7b).

does nebula have free stuff or can i steal it?

 

great point. i was wondering if getting ad old mackie and using the 6 outs on my RME would get me somewhere interesting in terms of summing.

it's not that my mixes are sterile, it's actually that they're too dense, everything is always fighting with everything else. i haven't figured out how to get big drums to sit with big fuzz guitars and my measly vocals unless i distort or compress the master buss in an interesting way. my favorite is when ableton starts to go in the red. tyhat's the cloest to perfection i have found

 

thanks

thanks. thats a really great perspective.

 

The weak point is the pres for vocais and guitars, especially the vocals.
You need a dedicated with analog compressor, eq and saturation, its a big difference from RMEs inputs.. Much more than 10%,
Also buy a cheap patchbay from Behringer To use the full potential of your setup, or a programmable one.
vocal is the most important and the second in loudness, after the kick, so.. First things first right?

 

Last edited: Feb 15, 2016

that is a very interesting perspective. thanks for sharing. why are you down on the RME pres? what do you suggest i get in terms of pre/comp/eq. (is this the moment i finally get the guts to buy a distressor?)

patch bays depress me. i did know there were programmable ones. that sounds really interesting. which one has the best ease of use? also, please tell me at least one has a random feature. cu zthat would be super cool

 

All depends of the budget!
RME pres are good but they do not have the analog compressor, eq or saturation. Remember that rock music and many others are all about color right? The RMEs are all about clean. When you put some hot color in inputs (not too much) it helps a lot in the mix and mastering.
I use 2 behringer px3000 with 96 inputs, all tagged and all my sources get the full benefit of my processors.
If you think linear you will have to spend a fortune, no ones do that unless you wanna record all live.
Distressor is a killer compressor and you can go if you use your 2 preamps (that are good) + eq and some saturator... the weak part of you chain I think is the Art preamp witch is good for live and cheap. The Art that I tested are dirt, cannot speak about you model.
Grace preamps are killer and a bargain, your mics will sound better and you can use for all inputs.
The design of sound is really personal, the better why to test witch hardware to buy is testing all Nebulas libs at Audioz.

 

More about how you mic them. Or run the mics through any decent analog mixer, then into your interface. Instant vintage. lol. And tape simulation VST plug ins on the drum bus add some vintage sound, too. Push them just past saturation.

 

Last edited: Feb 15, 2016

This is the real shit, completely thought out for both tracking and mixing, lots of tweaking to help inject the good stuff into your pieces. Audio dudes that live and breathe and that have used it cannot say enough about this box. Can't afford it ATM, I think I want it, maybe even need it. It is called Silver Bullet, it also kicks ass on vampires and werewolves. For your perusing... $1999.00

• Tone-Amp™ analog Mix and Tracking processing modes with dedicated I/O
• "A" and "N" cascading MOJO-Amp circuit topologies inspired by classic American and British consoles from the 70's
• Mix and Tracking Modes allows both Mix processing and Overdub / Tracking processing without any re-patching of cables or need for patch bays
  • Mix: process the 2-bus, bounce digitally recorded tracks and stems, combine with a DAW controlled summing system, or use with a passive summing in Folcrom™ mode.
  • Track: connect after your mic preamp, synth, sampler, etc.
• Mic Modes allow Silver Bullet to function as a fully featured stereo microphone preamplifier with Polarity Reverse and 48V phantom power
• Stereo signal path throughout with single set of easily recallable detented controls
• Visually stunning 20-segment stereo high resolution output meter
• Mojo LEDs provide visual feedback of signal level intensity
• Tone shaping EQ suite designed specifically for mix sweetening and broad stroke tone sculpting of individual tracks
  • Tight: 12 dB/oct, 20 Hz high pass filter with slight resonance at 40 Hz for tightening bottom end and increasing low frequency headroom
  • Baxandall Tone EQ, +/-9 dB boost/cut
    • LF: Pultec-inspired Subsonic (30 Hz) and Bass (60 Hz) frequencies
    • HF: Presence and Air frequencies
  • Vintage: softens high frequency response to emulate vintage British consoles
• Transformers by Ed Anderson and Cinemag
• ROGUE FIVE discrete op amps designed by Louder Than Liftoff, conforming to standard 2520 footprint
• Class-A biased op amps
• All circuit components chosen by ear for maximum MOJO
• Includes robust external universal (100-240 VAC, 50/60 Hz) power supply and IEC power cord (14 AWG)

http://store.louderthanliftoff.com/products/silver-bullet-drbills-stereo-tone-amp?variant=7459861315

 

Hey, it's discounted from $2500. You need to extort or steal some cash and jump on it...Does look like a powerful tool. I can't say it often enough, if you only own one piece of hardware, make it a mic pre. This thing is a swiss army knife ....

 

if you can, buy a summing mixer. but keep in mind that converters are crucial too if you plan to bus out and remix in a summing mixer.
some people record at 96 kHz, mix at 44.1 kHz, then bus out onto a summing mixer, and record back into ANOTHER computer at 96 kHz. using very good converters.
I have 3 summing mixers:
2x Urei Platform, from the 90s, ICs, VCA controlled
Telefunken-Siemens reracked and serial number matched old Telefunken pres, comps, splitters, etc etc summed on a V675, all passive A class, from '65 to '72
Chandler minimixer, all passive A class, new, EMI TG Channels

and I love them

the "old" or "vintage" sound you were talking about is a matter of equing the sound.
Lo fi stuff may need a cut above 8 kHz.
if you take old Telefunken stuff it s all 40-18000 Hz and not 20-20000, maybe that s the only vintage effect.
but it s about eq, the sound is the classic A class sound... better than modern gear in most cases.
the rest is called color, attitude. Some stuff is more colored, some stuff less. That s what analogue sick minds look for.
Probably the "old vintage" sound you re talking about is the "real" analogue sound.
the original project of the Minimixer channels is from '59. it doesn t sound OLD at all. It sounds like 80s Neve if not better. I don t know anybody who would refuse a Neve sound cause it s old.

ok as final words I would suggest to read a lot before buying, avoid Neve stuff, it s not Neve anymore, and save money for a good one.

 

Last edited: Feb 17, 2016

Neve ain't Neve and lots don't dig the Sennheiser Neumanns. Joe Meek is just a name on a green box.

 

right said man
Some year ago british Joemeek was really another quality, for the price

Chandler and Universal Audio are still the same. Top quality, but expensive
they have their level entry stuff anyway:
UA has a 1000€ pre, the solo
Chandler makes the TG2, 2 pres for around 2250€
I know, still expensive, but you get what you pay for

 

A Chandler Minimix is a dream for me....
There are lots of good and pricey options, but sometimes people forget about the newbie user reality or the pro reality that lives outside USA or EU.
I think that first step is to emulate to mix channels with Waves, select the busses, auxes and channels in the right way, and Nebula that can be heavy in all channels. Just with waves channels it will be a HUGE difference. Test and change the mind and ear is the harder than buy, but can save a lot of money and achieve a more personal sound.
So, who bought something and only use one time?
I have a friend that is amateur and bought a lot of pricey equipment for his studio, but he doesn't have basic things, and most things arent connected... no workflow because he do not care about result. Many great records are made with limited gear... so first things first... like a patchbay right?
I will make my studio bigger to summing with my 24x24 mixer and its 196 inputs and outputs, Its custom made by the the tech genius behind the Mutantes from Brazil. Its different and do an amazing job, The Beatles once said that Mutantes was the greatest band ever. And all the gear was hand custom made by their brother...

 

Last edited: Feb 17, 2016

I know perfectly the limited budget studios
I also like em in a way
the guy was asking for summing mixers experiences, I m saying to buy a good one or it s a waste
to have good converters is another problem
if you can save money for at least a Dangerous Bus, ok
or you can always go for a couple of line pres, a stereo analogue slam
or all into the box is better than a cheap summimg mixer and cheap converters

 

Last edited: Feb 17, 2016

Agree 100% with you, the critic is for me too... we fly when the guy do not have a patchbay...
I believe that he must do some homework before asking complex thing right?
Its common here people asking confusing or simple things and the answer are more than they can digest.
Thanks for your great contribution, to intention to harm, just a meditation.