For the record, this thread is mostly to encourage beginners and I don't claim to know much about the subject. I'm just thinking there might be others out there that were intimidated by these "advanced" techniques and might like to hear my experiences with it.

For a long time I avoided dealing with "Gain Staging" in my DAW. I kind of knew what it was, I heard it was "good", but I didn't realize the importance nor the difference it makes on sound. So I didn't think about it.

I'm not ashamed (or am I?) to admit that I even used techniques I saw on youtube -- not realizing it was doing absolutely nothing and I didn't realize it

It was only when I took the effort to actually experiment with it that I realized what an incredibly huge difference it makes.

I don't know how you do it on other DAWs, but I experimented on things like this. (Studio One)

Tone Generator (well I experimented with vocals and synths, but a Sine wav is great for testing and seeing obvious results)
Mixtool +
Vumeter
--->Some FX Plugin)
Mixtool -

I then made a macro to control the mixtools (one gain up, one inverted to go down) with one knob so I could spice up the signal with some gain without a lot of effort. (warning: it seems to pop a lot before leveling out for some reason-- use a limiter!!)

It was like seeing the light. I tried all kinds of plugins and I was shocked to realize I wasn't even using them correctly.

For example, taking a compressor like the Puigchild and putting it in there with 0GR. Crank up the input gain and the humble sine wave thickens up into some beefy sound with harmonics everywhere. Turn down the input gain and it's nothing but sine.

I tried other things like Echoboy on 100% wet and turned up the input gain until it's in the red . Not only did it saturate the sine wav but it significantly compressed it.

I'm sure this is all obvious to a lot of you, but it's certainly enlightening to hear the effects with my own ears.

So I recommend to anyone who's never experimented with gain staging to give it a try, because the results are real, and they're spectacular.

Of course, I think you have to use quality plugins that react to it. I tried it with some stock plugins and it did absolutely nothing

 

Last edited: Feb 3, 2016

Well, I'm glad for you for a start. I'm a beginner myself, I know good practices like this are important though I still don't know how to use them (properly). Another basic good practice that comes to my mind, for example, is doing only substractive eq in many scenarios and in two stages. I don't do it yet, but at least I know I should lol.

That being said, I want your presets!! Presets!! Just joking ;)

 

I remember when I first started working with computer music on FL, had no fucking clue what I was doing. Literally I would just fuck around with all the stock plugins and place random shit everywhere and see what happens. I was like, 'errr what ok what dis shit do?' to everything. I'd blast the crap outta maximizers and limiters and act like I was trying to compress some crap. I was total noob with the mixer lol... lmao funny times though and it was an interesting experience.

Interesting how just putting urself right into the deep end eventually makes you click one day and you end up figuring all this shit out. At first you start off completely lost, and then all of a sudden it all just comes together...

 

That is the right way!
This is how the professionals work...

Only an amateur thinks about gain staging and shit like that

 

This is your best friend (only 8 €)




Also have a look at these video tutorials

https://audiosex.pro/threads/in-the-box-tutorial.23103/

 

Last edited: Feb 3, 2016

I aint even know what gain staging is fam and I are mixing and mastering expret!

Srsly doe, I actually don't have much idea about the term but I do know how to adjust my levels properly and analyze my meters and shit. I'm just terrible with names and don't give much importance to all these terms... although when it comes to understanding others I eventually have to...

 

This reminds me a quote from A. Einstein about research: "If we researchers knew what we are doing it wouldn't be called research"

In other words, do trial and error on your own and you can end achieving the best results

 

However true that is, trial and error is time consuming. That's one of the reasons why this forum kicks ass. The exchange of ideas, newbies and seasoned fellas on a level field, is priceless.

 

i am also in the process of learning the gain staging subject. i use studio one 2 on xp
my main concern at the moment is about pre fader metering. after a long research i found out:

the (presonus) vu meter doesnt want to be installed in xp= no pre fader metering

there is a plugin from sonalksis (freeg) that supposedly does the p.f.m but i cannot not confirm it...

there are some complicated routings i didnt fully, fully understand. i found the following info in several forums:
1. 'Create a fx-bus and make a send at unity level pre-fader. This will give you a level meter together with the other ones'

2. 'If you insert a level meter (you can find it in the fx list of effects) into the channel insert this will show you the level pre-fader. Since you can place one or many level meters in any position you want you can also watch levels going in and out of your other inserted fx on your channel'.

3. 'to insert for each instrument track or track containing imported waveform the presonus level meter plugin on the first insert on those tracks, then I'll manage the headroom directly by editing the waveform gain or the plugin gain...'

4. 'you can also create a group and set its output to not connected. Then use a pre/fader send from your audio track to that group and set your meters to input. That way you can meter the actual input in the track itself, and the pre-gain in the group channel'.

i would be very grateful if anyone could enlighten me.

i would not dare to ask about the k system until i understand it fairly well. my 'method' at the moment is to gain stage all the tracks at -18dbs fs with mixtool. all the tracks on surface to 0. when needed i reduce or increase the volume again with mixtool so that the fader will show as 0 but the real volume will be further up or further down according to the song's needs

and to finish i want to say how great this place is. i've learnt loads from you and hopefully soon i will start giving back

thank you very much!

 

Last edited: Feb 3, 2016

Gain staging is really a simple concept. My technique is simply monitoring my db level. have my snare hit at -8db. My instruments -12db and lower, and my bass and kick around -10db. Sometimes I'll switch it up between snare and bass drum etc.. but pretty much I leave plenty of head room for processing. I've never used a limiter on my master buss or individual track buses. If I need to hear my track louder, I just crank the gain up on my 6i6.

 

Hi to everyone here. I recently asked myself about gain staging and I found this video on youtube. This Guy is giving good advices. Cheers

 

When metering using different plugs I notice there's different readout numbers.. Is this normal?

 

I think too that gain staging can be simple, especially using this plug-in:



First, place it as the last insert on your master bus. Calibrate it so that 0 on the vumeter equals -20 or -18 dBFS. In the image it is calibrated to -18. Everytime you tweak a knob, fader or slider, or every time you insert a new plug-in, you check that the constant gain reads around the 0 mark. Transients (temporary peaks) are left to pass 0 occasionally and never let the needle be stuck at max. It should be some ebb and flow between 0 and over past +3, but it should never remain maxed out.

That's it. Just remember to balance the in and out controls of the plug-in you insert. Too much input and the audio starts to sound harsh unless it is a saturatior or tape/console emulation, which usually works best juiced up. You let your ears tell you the sweet sonic spot of your input at the insert and then compensate gain with the output control until your constant gain is at 0 on the vumeter. If the plug-in you add has some kind of gain meter, NEVER let it turn red.

 

Last edited: Feb 3, 2016

Over my years I've learned or been told how to gain stage by a few different people I look up to for advice. Not one of them gain stages the same. The concept is the same but the methods they use vary. They all have a different reason why they pick a certain dB as their level.

Understand the concept of why you want to gain stage but develop the best method for your workflow and stick with that. Also remember VST's and VSTi's have "Gain" knobs for a reason.

 

There are also these:
Hornet VU Meter (Paid; 4 eur) - It can also do automatic gain adjustment:

Sleepy-Time Records Stereo and Mono Channel (free):
http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2014/09/20/sleepy-time-dsp/ (All great)

Dynamic Range Tool:
www.dynamicrange.de/es/es/download

T-Racks CS Metering

http://www.orban.com/meter/ (Free)

A lot of them really... Mostly wanted to mention the first two. One for the automatic gain and the other because it seems to be identical to the paid one mentioned above.

The editor is messed up for me... Goes out of borders and doesn't let me change the italics. Then they show up normally...

PS. I don't really use these.

 

Thanks for telling me about Hornet. I went to check their VU meter and ended up buying SongKey MK2. Last hours to get 40% off.

 

i always thought that -18 was rms level not dbfs.....but thats me¡

 

I guess you are right. It's not about peaking. Someone else might clear the smoke for good.