I only respond stupidly when given stupid responses. Put up your songs tough guy, I'm curious to see the tracks of someone who passes such judgement upon someone.

 

You say you've been diving into theory lately and that you want to get the feel for chords/melody relationships and etc. Basically what you're saying is that you want to become a musician but it seems that you want to tackle in a shortcut way... and there's no such thing.

The best way to get a feel for those musical concepts is not by reading about them or having some software doing analysis for you. The only way is you doing it and dissecting things many times while evolving your ear and musical concepts at the same time.


I know you won't believe me and it kinda puzzles the amount of people that nowadays appear asking for the same thing as you but the truth is, no knowledgeable person will advise you in any way that isn't about practicing what you learn. You don't need an instrument but that's only going to make things harder.. painting on a piano roll and pressing play to hear isn't the most immediate solution to get good at what you want.

 

I agree, I'm studying theory on my piano roll and am learning fast. I just have no desire to learn on a physical instrument but I respect everyone's opinion except the nasty comments that I see sometimes. I'll just go back to my little corner now since people are ganging up on me for asking newbie questions that most producers are too embarrassed to ask. I just wanted to know other peoples perspective on how they learned about certain things.

 

All I'm going to say is that Asshole who told me I should start fishing to put up his tracks since he is so quick to pass judgement on someone.

 

That's a common pitfall. You understand things in a theoretical way and you feel that you've got it figured out... it's just that "something" is still missing... and that something is around 99% of what really matters.

Anyone can read a book and understand how scales are built, chords are formed, how to read sheet music... but that by itself means nothing, really.

 

Man, I'm sorry to inform you, but you wont go too far without at least being able to know your way around a keyboard.

I'm not talking about becoming a virtuoso, of course, but you must know your scales and you must know how chords are formed, in order to eventually have some insights about the very mysterious relationship between harmonies and melodies.

How many top notch producers/songwriters/composers can't at least sketch their ideas using an instrument? I'm not aware of any, actually.

Sorry say it like this, but in my opinion, you're just a lazy guy making up excuses in order to exempt yourself of actually doing what it takes to actually learn something.

Maybe if I've misjudged you, but that's how I feel about you so far.

"I refuse to play an instrument"? - Come on, man; It sounds a lot like someone who tried to learn one and became frustrated because it's not as easy as he thought it would be, then gave up and came up with this childish excuse of being a nonconformist, you know, of being someone who refuses to follow the rules of the "game".

Anyway, what you are having trouble to understand is that learning an instrument is the actual shortcut for learning music. It's much easier to learn and understand music by playing an instrument than by noodling around in a DAW.

 

Last edited: Jan 31, 2016

really how is a piano roll and keyboard so different?

 

I think you are just trying to make yourself feel important because you learned music through playing an instrument and I learned through a DAW.

 

Another thing, you will never improvise on a piano roll, the music will always be 'mechanical' in nature. And good luck trying to achieve natural pushing, dragging and syncopation. Music is an art-form that is expressed through organic flows.

 

Last edited: Jan 31, 2016

How do you expect to try out things like intervals, voice leading and all that with a piano roll? Are you really thinking about creating that "mind-to-sound" connection without an instrument?

That's ackward, unpractical and will probably lead to half assed results that will make your future posts sound like "I am stuck. I choose some chords, draw in the appropriate scales but nothing new or interesting is coming out... I know all the theory so, what am I doing wrong?"

 

Yeah, that's it

Bye

 

Kouros if you want to settle this like a man and have a producer battle i'll be waiting.. Until then you can run and hide and go try to pickup chicks with your ukulele.

 

vvv This vvv

Music flows, man. When you know your way around an instrument, it becomes an extension of your body which you can use to express yourself in real time. You'll never achieve this in a piano roll...Frankly, you can't even improvise in a piano roll, and improvisation is a huge part of music.

Not at all. I'm still learning and struggling, as much as anyone else.

A DAW or an instrument, they are just interfaces which enable you to express creativity.

However, they are completely different in terms of complexity and expressiveness. It takes months to master any DAW. It takes decades to master an instrument.

Until you can connect electrodes to your skull and make music flow in your DAW, you will never be able to achieve the same level of artistic expressiveness as you would using a musical instrument.

I guess you can even become a decent producer without knowing any instrument...But like I said before, I'm yet to meet an outstanding producer who doesn't know his way around an instrument reasonably well; In fact, all top notch producers I personally know are also skilled musicians.

Now, if you really want to be a musician, then you actually need to learn a musical instrument. You can even become a maestro later on and never touch an instrument again, but you'll have to go through all the usual process before you can make that happen.

 

Last edited: Jan 31, 2016

And not forgetting when you are "in the zone" an instrument plays itself. I have no idea how I came up with a lot of stuff, it just happened

 

Then, you're already way behind the curve, and you don't understand the correlation here. Being proficient on 'any' instrument, whether it's the bassoon, piano, or drum kit, allows massive capability in application of composing devices, that you will have a hard time applying otherwise. Frankly, I'm disappointed in this narrow-minded view, but it's your life.

However, to help answer the question of "how do I learn to identify chord progressions" (etc...), go download EAROPE, and start using it everyday for 15-30min, starting at lesson 1.

Also, download, or buy, a REAL BOOK, and listen to all the jazz standards. Your chord recognition of the qualities of tetrachords and extended/altered chords will sky rocket. There are many standard "concert" chord progressions, from 2 chords (cadences, passing, devices), to 6 or 7 chord progs.

Don't write theses concepts off. It's about training your ear and recognition. Don't even think about attending a University for any music program either, if your view is negative - You'll be thrown to the curb by your professor and peers. Apply all learned concepts to an instrument, monophonic, or poly. You will thank yourself.

 

If you learn music in a DAW you write in the daw.. Skrillex does this exact thing. The best producers do this as well. Most skilled instrument players are horrible at producing music, just my 2 cents.

 

Yeah, I'm yet to see someone achieving musical nirvana drawing midi notes into a piano roll.

These kids nowadays...They think music is like a video game, like Guitar Hero...They listen to Kanye West calling himself a genius all day long and think that's it....Their standards are way to low.

If only they knew that becoming a great musician is probably harder than becoming a nuclear physicist...

Music is by far the most complex thing I've ever studied in my life...I've been studying it since I was a kid and I still don't know shit...There's no limit to it...There's no point where you look yourself in the mirror and say "I know music"...There's always more and more...Anyone who underestimates it is making a miserably huge mistake.

 

Last edited: Jan 31, 2016

I'm willing to bet 98% of all the major producers who can actually compose music. By that I mean, the ratio of (samples used:ideas from their brains) is, 0-5%:100-95%, in their compositions. As opposed to DJ's or EDM type producers with, 80%-90%:20%-10%, in their arrangements.

Interesting, so "produce" doesn't mean the same as create? And, can't i create music with an instrument? Also, what happens if your computer dies, or all electronics cease functioning? How would anyone "produce" music? Oh yea! with a guitar or fucking keyboard like they did in the 70's. That's right...consumer recording on computers is new, i almost forgot.

But truly in regards to music itself, literally, harmony and theory is only half the battle. If the computer has to interpret your rhythms all of your music is going to sound robotic. Unless you use 100% samples, in which case you wouldn't be producing any music, just arranging music others produce on a timeline. You'd be a music editor.

 

Skrillex makes extensive use of the oldest instrument known to mankind, the human voice. He has also been a member of a few live bands.

 

Last edited: Jan 31, 2016

Like I said, I'm yet to know a top notch producer who doesn't know his way around at least one instrument reasonably well.