Before this breaks down into another argument thread, some food for thought.

Here are some articles that are are informative, they are both pro and con on the fact of Near Field Monitors and Room Treatment, these might help to dispel some of the myths, and misconceptions that are being discussed here and avoid another useful thread spiraling into a pointless bashing of one another. Thanks.

Do you need treatment with near-field monitors?
Near vs Mid field Monitors
Monitoring Basics
Mixing - are Near-Field Monitors necessary?
Near Field Monitoring

In stead of just Voicing an opinion, It is more beneficial to back it up with some facts or information. as anyone can say anything, but no one is going to listen to anything if it is just thrown out there with no basis, other that what I say is how it is.

Lets have productive Talks that help and educate, not pointless arguments that divide and insult or offend. Facts gentleman. If its there back it up.

 

Last edited: Jan 10, 2016

Fact: Room treatment products are some of the most profitable items music stores sell. Music stores perpetuate the myth.

Fact: The production costs for room treatment products is very low, and profit margins huge. Manufacturers perpetuate the myth.

Fact: Studios charge huge money for you too use their magic rooms. Studios perpetuate the myth.

@samsome If you have convinced yourself that you need room treatment. I recommend you do it yourself. As others have pointed out, there are many great tutorials on the subject. The experience you acquire from doing it yourself will enrich your engineering skill set.

 

This is absolutely exemplary moderating.

 

That's why we love this place. nice to have you here ned944.

 

hello, all room treatment solution seekers ,

that might verily be, just does not have much to do with the question of needed or unnecessary room treatment.

that again rather illustrates the prevailing human greed, not the necessity or the superfluity of room treatment.

there might also be research and development expenditures built in these prices, of course, having no precise data about this pricing component, only my speculation.

those magic rooms are discernibly there to be noted, to be witnessed, on countless excellently executed records.

the fact of perpetuating the mythicalness of this element of record making might be there, of course, by all means, me has no data on the ratio of usefulness, of pixie dust.

spot on, fully endorsed, for every person with the required manual dexterity, can only advocate this solution, including the necessary study of the measurement processes, with that included there will come tremendous cognisance.

all the best for all of us, including the most appropriate best made room treatment for every one of us in the need...

later edit, post scriptum, before forget...

there exists the 6th edition of the book superliquidsunshine provided the link to, if someone would wish to have it, me has the epub version, convertable to other formats with the calibre program.

all the best for all of us...

 

Last edited: Jan 11, 2016

Countless more Hit Records, have been recorded, mixed and mastered in less than "Ideal" spaces.

How many people on this forum do you think record, mix, and master in less than "Ideal" spaces?

Would you tell them that they will never be able to produce quality records?

 

hello, room acoustics experimenter fellows ,

not that me recalls stating it in any way contrarily, assuredly there are countless genres, production approaches, where the influence of recording room acoustics grew into negligible.

am in perpetual awe for every one of us who is able to do perfect mixing projects in less than ideal or even particularly mangling environments, this might still become one of the most marketable attainments, hats, caps, toupees, payots even, off for that.

have no data about the ratio of successful projects mastered in professionally designed rooms, those done in bedroom corners, me would think that no mastering engineer would make it consciously harder on her, him, if there are choices between working environments.

all the best for all of us, including the best sounding projects with the least investment required...

later edit, post scriptum, after seeing your edits...

have no data available on this, me would not compel any of us into trying that instead of working in sensibly treated rooms, even if still loads less than ideal.

this here present self of mine would not have such assumptive notions, the idea also did not come from me, never would consider such misdeeds.

if producing means the composing of the song, go for it in any possible setting.

working during the sound design, the editing, the pocketing, the mixing, the mastering, stages of projects, in untreated rooms might mean many things, none of them to our advantage.

these jobs will be as fatiguing as they can be, the tediously achieved results will translate loads less to other auditioning environments.

you are seemingly able to think that your questions are here to support your notions about near field monitoring, about room treatment, so be it, your questions, your concerns.

all the best for all of us, including the wisest choices in our working environments...

 

Last edited: Jan 11, 2016

@JST So what should I do? I have a non treated bedroom of 5.7 meter x 3.5 meter. Should I buy near field monitors and start mixing?

I'm genuinely interested in what you're saying.

 

@Qaiss Yes, be unafraid that you will fail because of your space. Trust your ears, because it sounds as good as you think it does. That's the power of modern DAWS, interfaces, plugins, and near field speakers.

The art of recording, mixing, and mastering are engineering skill sets which require time and dedication, but the learning curve is not as steep as others would have you believe, especially people who want you too pay them for their expertise.

I know you want to get everything right, because you constantly hear that if your space is not perfect you will fail. By worrying about room treatment you are avoiding just doing it, and preventing yourself from gaining much needed experience.

R2R, HEXWARS, AudioUTOPiA, and others have provided the tools you need to achieve your dreams. Do not devalue their gifts by coming up with excuses for why you can not do it. These gifts are not meant for professionals, who can afford expensive gear, software, and fancy studios. These gifts are meant for the artists and engineers that have shoe string budgets. All you need is a computer, an interface, and monitors to get started.

Computer optimization and management is another subject which you must tackle, and there is a learning curve, but again it is not that steep.

In your size space I recommend 5 inch monitors, such as:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/STUDIO50USB
These offer exceptional value and are perfectly adequate.

There are many other premium quality models that are reasonably priced, such as:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Rokit5G3
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ErisE5
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/K5
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR305

I think you will find that bigger speakers are unnecessary, and take up precious space. A sub-woofer is optional but recommended, check out the brands above. Matching brands is not necessary, but is typical. Yamaha is the standard, but a little pricey. I am not a brand fanboy, but buyer beware, there are brands too avoid.

Monitors can be faulty and if you are inexperienced you might not realize it. So be wary and test them, if you think something is wrong, return them. Buy locally if you can. I never do, but sometimes I wish I had, especially when a project is delayed because a return is necessary.

Okay guys, it's time too attack these inexpensive monitors. Let me hear how you can not record, mix, or master without over-priced monitors.

Just wait a second though, because I am going to recommend inexpensive interfaces too, such as:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...r_umc204hd_audiophile_2x4_24_bit_192_khz.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ger_umc404hd_audphile_4x4_midi_interface.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1194109-REG/steinberg_ur22_mkii_ur22mkii_usb_2_0.html
Everyone knows about the Focusrite & Presonus Stuff, they are perfectly fine.

If you need a bunch of ins & outs try this one:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...0_audiophile_18x20_24bit_96khz_interface.html What a Bargain!

Now, bash away guys, tell us all about your RME, Apogee, Universal Audio, and Avid interfaces, and how they are so superior in every way.

 

Last edited: Jan 11, 2016

hello, all audio love maker fellows ,

be unafraid, the quality of the space where you place your speakers, your there to be trusted ears, will have its influence on what you hear, thus optimising its reaction to the sound coming off your speakers, going into your ears, will only help to elevate your work experience.

be unafraid, all the tools, be it software, hardware, your ears, are there to be aided by what acoustics has to teach, not to be used without what its solutions might provide.

be unafraid, no one implied that anyone might fail in her, his, aspirations because of the lack of room treatment, except the assertion of one person.

very true, with all the resources now in the open, people with the right dedication do not have to fall for the almighty education institutions, this is one of the best advancements of this age.

does this artificial division between paid professionals, between artists and engineers on shoestring budget, have anything to illustrate?

assumptions, serving to discredit other posts, intentions, aforetime even, are the best in the toolset for persons with aspirations in the audio industry.

see above.

data should include room height too, as that parameter is also there to fight against with every weapon your intended acoustical treatment might serve with.

all the best for all of us, including best sounding projects with shoestring budgets...

later edit, post scriptum, ooooops, please, pray do, spare my blushes, before forget, me wants to thank you for all the informative links provided.

 

Last edited: Jan 11, 2016

@nadirtozenith The main idea JST is explaining, I think, is to not spend all your time in perfecting your environment. For you won't even get to the thing what is most important (what you actually do it all for): mixing.

It's just a different approach in learning something. You either dive in a subject and tackle the problems along the way. Or you study/perfect as much as you can before, then dive in knowing that you won't have many problems in front of you.

 

hello, all audio love maker fellows ,

that is there to be done only one time, the earlier the better, thus freeing you from troublesome occurrences coming up later.

there exists one conception, suggesting that the amount of expenditures one gives out on room treatment should be minimum the same the cost of the speakers mean, also when one looks into possible future developments, the room treatment becomes more then even more important.

room treatment does not exclude any approach in the process of learning, the opposite, it helps to make the process less tedious, providing better environment for every experience level.

all the best for all of us, including disappointment free learning processes...

 

Couldn't agree more @JST.

This is very true as well, you should not stop yourself from trying because you do not think your environment is not perfect. Much better to practice and learn than to sit idle and waste your time waiting for the perfect space, as you will waste precious time increasing your skill level in the meantime.

Personally, I don't have the Expensive Gear, and am happy with what i have. my gear consists of;

Alesis MasterControl Interface
Behringer DEQ 2496 Ultracurve
DBX 266XL
Art TPS II
Pair of M-Audio BX5a's
Pair of M-Audio BX8a'S
KRK Rokit 10s Subwoofer

I have Treated my room with both some Auralex Acoustic Foam panels as well as some Homemade Sound panels. By no Means a Professional Sound Studio. But this is good enough for me as I am Not making money from my music but enjoy making music. My studio is a small Room as well. While the panels and foam do not make my studio a perfect environment they do help ever so little.

@nadirtozenith Your points are on target as well!

With the tools available today, it is more important to master the skills in using the software that is available than relying on the perfect space to fix or make your sound perfect. as you all know the saying "Garbage in is garbage out" no matter the space.

 

I just started reading this thread.
I just had read a lot of myths, erroneus concepts & trully tales.
What would be the benefit of all this discussion?
Surely, I hope we all agree, in making our songs sound great everywhere.
The simplest solution is to mix with a good pair of headphones...Why?
Because is the nearest hear you can get without having to worry about as the room where you are mixing.
How can you test this?

Make the best mix you can with headphones..
Render it, save it. Right?
Now take off the headphones ... (I hope you have not cheated before)
Listen in your speakers mix monitors...
Do You like it?
It looks like you had heard before in your headphones?
Or you just want to correct you a lot of things? Don't do it!!!
Ok, do it! Adjust all you want!

Now make the best mix you can with speakers..
Render it, save it. Right?
Burn both mixes on CD or Pendrive or whatever you like.


Go home, on your car's stereo take a hear.
Go to your girl's home. Listen it on her stereo system. (try not to touch EQ system)
Compare it with a similar record by another artist.
Go to your best friend's home. Listen it on his/her stereo system. (try not to touch EQ system)

Which one sounds better?
Headphone Mix or Monitor Mix?

if Headphone mix sounds better then you need room treatment.
If Speakers mix sounds better then you need a cold beer!

If you need room treatment, just let me know

 

To be more specific on your mic, is it a stock Dayton EMM-6? I've been reading about a company Cross Spectrum Labs that offer an inexpensive microphone calibration service along with these stock units. What they provide is compensating calibration files in .frd format on a thumb drive that's loaded into the measurement software so it can compensate for inaccuracies in the microphone itself. Can you verify that ARC provides for these cal files to be used? Here is a couple links to check out particulars of this.

http://www.hifizine.com/2012/09/day...microphone-calibrated-by-cross-spectrum-labs/
http://www.cross-spectrum.com/measurement/calibrated_dayton.html

Would like to pull the trigger on this but would very much appreciate your opinion on the value since you have actual experience with ARC & the mics. TIA!

 

@nadirtozenith

What troublsome occurances? You are creating problems that don't exist.

What future developments? Let me guess, your imaginary huge project, like recording a symphony in your acoustically treated bedroom.

Wrong, it not only makes it tedious, it also reinforces the false notion that treatment is necessary while mixing with near fields.

You talk in circles to mask your own ignorance an appear objective, you have miles to go Socrates. Educated people see right through your veiled arrogance.

You are misinformed, deal with it.

Do I need to prove that God does not exist also?

 

I can agree with that. I put up a shitload of OC703 in my home studio. Understand in the last two years I've kept myself busy learning production, mixing, sound design, etc. from the ground up. When it came to room treatment I didn't feel the need to waste a month learning how to do it "right". I put a bunch of stuff up on the optimal spots on the walls, covered as many corners as I could, and called it a day. I'm sure if I said that on Gearslutz someone with an acoustics website would tell me how I'm actually making it worse, but it reduced the reverb time in the room to barely anything and eliminated that small room boomy/bassiness. For $300 total I ain't mad.

 

I don't know man. I'm all for a moderate approach to room treatment if you're not building a million dollar studio. BUT. Just because the monitors are near field doesn't mean the room won't influence the way you hear things. People on GS often talk about how widely a frequency response and/or reflections in a room can vary in just a matter of inches. Sounds sensationalist but it's pretty easy to reproduce by measuring amplitude on a test tone sweep or by clapping or using any other kind of impulse to test the room's reflections in a given spot.

Just one last thought - @nadirtozenith is one of only a few guys who's always nice to everyone. English is obviously not his native language. It seems to be yours. That's not a good reason to act like a dick about the way he talks/types/whatever, and I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that he's arrogant. Just cool it man. Don't be the guy that's picking fights over room treatment

 

Prove me.

 

God exists and the proof is in the pudding.