Heya guys,

I've been producing music for the past 4 years and I know Ableton Live on a very nice level now, but I seem to struggle with getting a decent sounding mixdown with it To be frank, I'm sure its not all Ableton, its probably also my mixing skills etc, but I do wonder if using Logic for mixdowns would benefit the final output of the track in any way? And keep in mind I've practiced mixdowns and watched hundreds of tutorial videos on it, and still my results are very sub par... A lot of my mates that have reached good levels in production and had tracks played back on BBC Radio 1 etc had told me that while ableton is great for jamming, its not so good for actual mixing and mastering. I know from experience that these same mates aren't even that good at mixing down their music in the first place. They could be biased fanboys, but there could also be some truth to it! Problem is that Logic Pro X is so dramatically different to what I'm used to, that I'm not sure if I can use it for producing without wasting more time figuring the ins and outs of it (especially the new version seems a lot has changed since 9)

1.) Is there a point in composing music in ableton, then exporting it out with all the third party fx into logic for mixdown stage, or will the stem files still end up sounding abletonish? Would it be better to rewire then?

2.) Am I crazy to think that Ableton tracks sound slightly inferior and not as full as Logic/Cubase? ps. I use third party vsts like Waves and Fabfilter for mixing, not that many in built Ableton ones.

Should I perhaps just focus on making more music and forget the whole DAW vs DAW crap?

 

Just my Experience, Ableton has a kickass Audio engine, if you know what you're doing you can get a really kickass sound from it,

in the other hand, Logic is good for production, even kinda of better/easier ? dunno as i said it is my personal Experience we may not share the same taste,

Logic is good for mixing too btw...

what i suggest, stick to Ableton as it is your main daw, you master it well, try to get better with mixing skill,

try these tips,

- After you finish working on a track (the Production part is done) you feel it is time for the mixing phase ?

Get all your elements Fader's down (no sound), put your kick at -3dB then start rising up elements, start with the clap/claps,
kick clap - kick clap, start mixing those together, some eq, color on your clap maybe even some small reverb, dunno, then we go to the bass,
Kick Clap Bass, you may want to disable all FX on your Bass Synth, put an EQ try getting the sound you want, then a compressor, start missing the compressor, until Kick & Bass aren't fighting, if Kick Clap Bass sounds good, next is percussions and hihats all that stuff, cut from 200 to 400 at lowend, start rising loops and percussion try playing with the volume fader, use some compressors, eq reverb, dunno... when you're satisfied, you go to the next, Main lead ect ect.

with each elements you start mixing try to disable all FXs it may help you get a clear idea,

try to put master at -6dB too, it may help, normally you can get a good sounding stuff using these tips, i may help you further if you want, just mp and we will see where are you from a good sounding mix...

 

Last edited: Nov 7, 2015

Forget the "DAW vs DAW crap". As far as I know, there is no sonic difference between modern DAWs. So yeah, focus on making some music, and over time you'll get an even better hold on the mixing stage in Live. But maybe your workflow, and thus the result of your productions, might be better off working with another DAW. But that is a total different story. Bottom line - Can't blame the DAW on the quality of your music.

 

keep telling your self that ;)

 

I would stick to the DAW you rely on and you are used to listening. I can’t see the benefit to scatter pieces of work around complex pipelines; it can be a hassle not just because the GUI itself, but also for details that might make you lose time sorting out.
I´ve messed around with Ableton and Logic and to my understanding Logic offers a pretty compressive workflow.

 

is not uncommon practice to write your song in Ableton Live and then export all stems to another DAW for mixing.

I would say do what makes you happy, if logic or pro tools keeps your brain more focus then do it.

I come from a background where artists just write the music or lyrics, engineer/programmer will produce the track, another big guy will mix the track only and someone else will do the mastering.

I guess like most of us we do everything ourselves but working in a team it is very inspiring and you learn a lot form it.

 

Pro mastering engineer nowadays, will ask for STEMS, not just a single file in waf format.

it is not uncommon practice, i can assure you that, because export separated files, will give you an advantage, you pre-master them, you got a holy shit sounding quality (talking from experience), then export again @ -6dB and you master, holy moly quality sound you get.

Being the best solution for the best quality if you doing this yourself, it will take forever, and it will exhaust you, doing them in a team is indeed very inspiring and you can learn very mush from it, expect i'm my very own team. xd

Btw nowadays, you have to be the DJ, the producer, the sound engineer, the mastering guy, and the publisher, and you may or may not succeed...

 

Keep Live. Each DAW has its problems and Logic as well.

 

Why don't you finish a project in Ableton and get a friend/sound engineer of yours to mix your project and you could compare what you have done to the one done by your friend/sound engineer.No harm in trying.You could find out where you may be going wrong.I use both Logic and Ableton and yes there are pros and cons to both DAWS.If you are using mainly Audio samples/loops then stick to Ableton.If you use a lot of vsts then you could try Logic.Again it is your choice.Each DAW is a monster in its own class.You gotta bring out the monsta in you to tame the beast!!

 

Funny you mention the Stems Mastering as I've just got ask to master an album that way.

Too many roles indeed

 

As others have said, every daw has its own issues. But you can mix in any and get the same results. Logic has one particular issue: PANNING. Research that issue if you'd like....the main recommend for mixing in Logic is to do your panning from the plugin, not the logic channel strip. You actually lose stereo data if you pan from logic's mixer.

Ableton can be great for mixing. Remember you can resize the mixing section to show longer meters when you reach that stage of your production.

A way to cheat the mixing (in some scenarios) is to low-pass/high-pass everything, and slowly roll it back until you have enough of the core sound. Try to give everything its own space...if two must share the same frequency area, experiment with scooping alternate frequencies out...for example: Trumpet and Synth booth use 800Hz-2KHz....take some cut out 1Khz area from trumpet and 900Hz from synth. These are just example figures...but the point is when you remove some frequency from one of the clashing sounds, the other will be clearer there. So use ears to decide the best clarity location for each. If they need the exact same clarity area, do use multiple small cuts and/or pan them more apart.

 

It's not the darts (unless damaged), it's the skill and experience of the person throwing them. I am not the only one here who has come to the conclusion that it's better just to use what tools you have and get on with the creating part. If no music or product gets created, what good is any of it? Except for a few things or special circumstances, the less time worrying which DAW and plug-ins sound better (tinkering with all the doo-dads and gizmos), the more I get done. A good composition or product will transcend all that stuff.

 

Everyone here is saying what is exactly in my head so Im not going to reiterate them. My suggestion is to go and befriend a good experienced engineer and pick their brain. Go to the person who does it day in and day out, once you get them going on the thing they love the information will heaped by the truck loads, and now once you get into the mixdown phase of the project thats where good monitors and sound cards proper placement room treatment blah..blah..blah(another topic) comes in to factor. And even at that point Ive seen or heard people use sub-par equipment and get what I couldn't believe results and visa-versa the top of the line equipment get lack luster quality mixes. Learn your rigs limitations so you can exploit all its rich goodness.

 

FYI, The panning in Logic is not an issue. Some DAWs (including Ableton) don't actually pan stereo channels, but just change the volume balance of the left and right sides. To achieve "true panning" in Logic, you just need to use the built-in "Directional Mixer" tool.

 

Its like a paintbrush, yeah you can achieve different styles/effects with different brushes.... but then you meet someone who is painting masterpieces with his damn fingers and selling his work for 50k a piece and it just breaks everything you thought you knew! It's music.. there is no wrong way to do it. Personally, in my early years I purposely stayed away from the technical side of production... The people I met who knew every spec and every function in and out.... there music was crap!! As long as you can grasp signal flow the rest should come. Needless to say I got there eventually as well.

just remember ... If someone is willing to take the time to teach you, no matter how minuscule or meager it may seem... BE GRATEFUL and consider it a gift. A seven year old might teach you something you would have never thought of. I treat music the same way a doctor practices medicine or an attorney practices law. Both fields require constant continuing education to maintain professional licenses... and as the professions are constantly changing it is so important to stay current with your craft for both the clients, yourself, and for the field in general... there is no greater gift....

With that being said, I personally use Ableton, but it does have limitations. I recently realized you cannot create mono buses... making it impossible to create the parallel compression heard in most edm kicks... so youll have to select mono kick samples to start with ... and so on and so for. For me, my ears will tell me before my eyes will... Just remember our egos are quite powerful and very very dangerous... Always get outside opinions and take constructive criticism with open arms ... find people who will tell you the truth about what they hear and not just pump you up to be part of the entourage!!!

 

well. after many years of practicing "music production" as per say, my "workflow" is pretty simple.
Doing all the bigcreative work/art in abelton.

when its "done", as in "finnished" i bounce all instruments/audio tracks to single audio files,
then i turn my mind to a different state, with different focus points. aka "mixmode" or engenering or whatver. and imporant all the files into Cubase and go to work. I aim as treating it as someone elses music im mixing. pressuring me to be more objective of the music/piece at hand.

its such a big relief to switch tool and focuspoint(s). Since it frees up my brain to not have to think so much about "the creative part/art" and making taking decesions alot easier when doing the "mixing"

i could explain different things in more detail, but then my mainpoints might be missed. -

i keep returning to, keeping things as simple as possible. its so easy to overcomplicate anything. whitch can lead to great fustration etc.

 

Well explained!
Music is too BIG to be simply reduced to technical approaches, terms, steps.
Okay nowadays everybody can try to produce, mix & master music in their home-studio but
on the other hand you have to do all yourself. The *old* structures of work and its segmentation
have been wiped away by the consequences of the "digital era".

I would recommend you to use just 1 and only DAW to do your work.
Learn the basics of Sound Engineering, apply them and don't get lost into technique too much!

 

Thank you for all the comments guys!

Looks like I'll stick to Ableton after all I tried Logic for a week, and while its a nice DAW with its own strengths, just can't see myself using something that hampers my workflow and stops me from putting down all my ideas quickly.

ps. Charlezkeys, you don't have to make mono busses in Ableton, just get Utility Tool (Ableton Native Effects) out and set the width from 100% down to 0% and the channel/group/return track will be mono! ;)

 

Logic has powerful stock plugins when it comes to mixing, the channel eq can really remove the low-end. When you have tons of tracks in one project you can definetly here the difference compared to other EQs. On the other hand It's not that good when it comes to add frequencies.