Hi there!
First I want to appreciate you guys for supporting me by your sincerity and generous comments. I have learned much since joining this forum.

I have some questions related to arranging the electronic musics. These are so important in the mixing process. Instead of admitting defeat, I really need some ideas for electronic genres as guidelines at least for start-up. Please support me. It's vital to be acquainted with the arranging for having a complete track of 3~4 minutes. Being creative in most aspects of the musics without having a clear song form in mind never lead you to a good musician. I don't want to be like a deranged man with random behaviors.

Actually when I hear the song writing term, I'd just imagine a poet and a band with the guitarists and a drummer, a singer etc. In the contemporary pop songs, there is a well-known song form called verse-chorus-bridge (just based on the lyrical pattern. right?). This is like the lodestar for not being lost in the song. But ...

What about the pure electronic musics?

How to utilize it in the electronic genres especially when the track does not have any lyric in it?

How do you arrange the multiple parts in the track?

Is there any standard one allocated to the electronic musics?

How do you think for your new track? I mean what are your steps from the bottom up?

How do you consider the story during the music development or you're acting storylessly?

Thanks so much! Once again I state that I need them to know just as guidelines and being as a start-up point.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2015

Personally speaking, if you have to ask and get answers to those most basic of question relating to song writing, then you you're not ready to hear the answers.
I can understand wanting to know technical aspects of producing and engineering, as like most things, if you don't know, being taught delivers.
But what do you feel? How do you think? That's basic stuff for song writers. Relying on the formulaic can only produce one result.

I wish you well on your journey to write a three minute song, I just don't want to read about your personal journey of discovery. I wish I hadn't clicked the link on AZ. If I'd known you were the topic starter, I wouldn't have.

 

Thanks Aliens for your anger.
But I have noticed that most people like me have problems in this field. Songwriting is not a simple task of putting some stuffs in the playlist and expect it to work. I am not trying to find any formula for that. Just simple ideas would be fine. I am sure the folks could raise their confidence when they know what they are going to do. If you look at the most Mixing tutorials posted to Audioz about the dance musics (specially the EDM one), you'd see that there is not a clear idea when the mix guy starts, just play with the instruments and finally find something. This is not what I am looking for. In the Rock songs for example, the composer knows what he or she is going to do but in the electronic field, it is not obvious.

I really don't know why people get tensed up when a question about the composing is questioned.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2015

Okay, first off it's not anger, may be a little contempt, perhaps a little ridicule, but not a touch of anger.

The ones that, because of warez, have all the toys, but minimal talent. Probably.

Especially if you can write with a piano or a guitar and a notebook and pencil.

Your framing is as faulty as your wannabe song writing formulas.

 

You hit the point. How to acquire the talent? Just by listening? Or expecting the mother giving it to the child with extra pushing force during the birth?
Electronic field is so large and comprehensive with millions of sounds not just piano and guitar. Anyway I am not talking about the sounds even their layering or ....Just creating a complete track.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2015

My point wasn't how to acquire talent, and you've completely missed the one about being able to write without a playlist editor.
If you can't finish a song without relying on internet topics to substitute for that lack of talent, you have the wrong hobby.

Now again, I wish you well on how to write a song, I just don't want to be a part of it.
No need to reply. We're done.

 

You obviously rate your musician skills highly.Well done. Most people reading your reply will be admiring your more impressive skill of acting like a tosser. Well done.

 

And yet I can write a song without asking how ;)
Now fuck off out of my face

 

Please stop acting like a jerk. We need information not charlatanism. Music has taught me to be at least polite and respectful. I don't now what kind of songwriter you are.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2015

One who can write finished songs. 2,3,4,5 minutes long, no worries. lol

 

Go grab MAGIC AB vst, load up some reference tracks (deadmau5, underworld, seven lions, orbital, royksopp, etc...) and reference the song's form while you compose.

Research classical music forms. Forms started from Baroque to Classical to more abstract/complex 20th century forms. Blues forms, jazz forms (w/ much room for solos), rock/pop forms. Focus on variation, drops, rise/fall, breaks, etc... for modern electronic form.
Form is straight forward, but creativity with your instrumentation and sample sequencing kicks it into 5th gear.

You can do it, and with some research, intellect, and experimentation, you'll develop your own feel and style.

I could go on, but it wouldn't be worth it to you on this topic.

Good luck!

***edit***

I went back and read your whole post.

Try focusing on writing 8 solid bars that keeps looping (...one loop/loop points). Build up those 8 bars with lots of harmonic content, killer beat, rhythmic aux percussion, etc... until the 8 bars sounds like a full chorus or verse. Then take all of those tracks that make up the 8 bar "...phrase" and build your arrangement from those individual tracks. Maybe just have the bass drum track, or variation of the bd track as the intro (for example). When you need a complete change of content, start another 8 bar cycle in the same fashion. That's a great technique to have in your toolbox.

 

Last edited: Nov 7, 2015

What kind of electronic music?
The differences are huge and questions like yours lead to the impression you don't know what you want yet, but what you know is that you want to surf the edm wave. I'm not saying that's what you want but your question makes you sound like it.

Depending on the genre, the rules and/or best practices vary from strict to completely absent.

So, what kind of electronic music shall it be?

Elektronische Musik?
Krautrock?
Electronic Rock?
Synthpop?
Electro?
Hip-Hop?
Fusion?
New-Age Music?
New Wave?
EBM?
House?
Techno?
Trance?
Drum&Base?
Ambient?
Italo Disco?
Dubstep?

Pick your poison!

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnYFZbm0f2qsFKq9BvLb4WVax2WDMMnit

 

Thanks guys for the reply! I mentioned before that electronic realm is like a sea with lots of genres. I am just talking about the general and main ideas.

Suppose you're a teacher in the music class and the course is modern song forms. What would you talk about in 20 sessions? You'd suggest to your students "Ok guys, lets listen to the royksopp musics" and learn what he has done. I don't think you could find any book writer to teach in this way.

 

I found a good video tutorial about the song form:
http://www.askvideo.com/course/musictheory104-song-form
https://audioz.eu/educational/video...-theory-courses-101-102-103-104-tutorial.html
https://audioz.eu/educational/video...106-building-chord-progressions-tutorial.html
This is also talking about the song form:
https://audioz.eu/educational/video...or-songwriters-the-fundamentals-tutorial.html
I think these are the only tutorials in Audioz about the song forms.

These are so good for getting the general idea on pop songs. But what about the Electronica?

 

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2015

http://www.dancemusicproduction.com.../fundamental-6-edm-arranging-formal-structure

 

Start getting yourself familiar with basic music theory and go from there. All kinds of people always say that learning particular "rules" like music theory will restrict them in their creative process. Yet, when you listen to their songs that are actually any good it's because they followed some fundamental musical ideas that are described within standard music theory.

There are no set ways of doing things and you can even neglect some of the more basic musical ideas whenever you're writing your piece. But there is a time and place for everything and knowing what's tried and true for hundreds of years will definitely help you through part of this learning curve.

Aliens is acting like a real dick but I agree with him on one thing. Too many people nowadays have all the plug-ins due to sites like AudioZ and many others, yet they don't have a single clue how music actually works. Many (wise) people here have said it before but I'll repeat it only because it's true. Don't focus too much on the next hot and amazing plug-in and just start learning how to use what you have. And that goes for more than just sound design. Never forget that people still want to hear your song and that they didn't start listening to you because of your amazing sound design if it doesn't hold any musicality within the piece.

 

Very useful. Thanks bro!
If someone knows all of the fundamentals or even the advanced techniques but could not create a meaningful, non boring, ... track and have trouble in putting them together what would be your prescription? I am so sick man. Please help me!

 

From http://www.dancemusicproduction.com.../fundamental-6-edm-arranging-formal-structure:
"We’ve all been there. You have a killer 8 or 16 bars running in your DAW but when it comes to building an entire track from them it isn’t as easy as it first appears. Simply repeating the loop throughout the length of the track and dropping audio channels in and out doesn't make for an interesting or exciting track and is more likely to send your listeners to sleep."

This is what I am talking about.

 

One thing I learned about making music is that there are no rules to it. Not entirely. Especially with electronic music. The only difference between electronic music and a real band is the sounds used and small elements that separate it. Oh, and 99% of everything is quantized. But that's not a golden rule to go by. There really isn't a standard. That's what I've learned. Only subjective opinions. When someone told me a DAW had better quality, I almost punched him in the face. I tell everybody that it is not the DAW that makes the music, it's the genius who uses them. I could use any DAW and still reach the same awesome results. There were so many people trying to tell me what to do and how I should do it but then when asked, "Well, why?" there's never a legitimate reason as to why. They just feel that's how you're supposed to do it. But then, it's entirely subjective at that point. There's so many different genres to electronic music, that you can't just go by one person's point of view. If you listen to any of these sub-genres, you'll notice that elements are borrowed from each. Complextro sounds no different than commercial dubstep with a house downbeat kick and tempo. If you're talking commercialized EDM/Complextro, then you should study how the music sounds. I'm not sure if you have what we might call "Producer's Ear" which take years to develop but it's when you have this ability to separate all the sounds in your head when you're listening to it and can hear every tone and frequency down to the subtle difference. You can focus your ears on the snare, the kick, the bass, the synths, individually. Meters help far as Peak meters and RMS meters to get a good understanding on how the masters are and the perceived loudness.

My best advice to you is to understand compression and side-chaining, automation and sound designing, complex chords and different effects. And to listen to one of your favorite producers that make this type of music. Someone once told me "If you want to set the bar, look for the absolute best in your eyes, reach that standard and pass it to new heights."... There are so many different ways to reach the same result. As long as you realize that there is no standard, you start to create your own and become your own. Then people are going to be asking "How does Foster911 makes his beats? HE'S AMAZING!" ... Set the bar, friend. #Goodluck