Don't get me wrong, my observations were not towards you.

I was being sarcastic. That's what you do and what everybody does because that's what is there to do in that environment (piano roll representation). Otherwise it would be like writing guitar tab and trying to force "enharmonicity" to frets...


"You have to sharpen the 3rd fret, if you flat the 5th fret you're WRONG!!"

See how retarded that would be? You just write "4", everything else doesn't apply to the notation framework at hand.

 

Umm I think you guys missed the point.
Be it the sharps or flats, or actually the whole idea behind music theory, isn't about what is present on the page, or what is labeled on the piano roll.
The whole function of music theory is to provide alternative way of thinking to get inspired, and of course, to write down your mental process so when you want the same effect, you can understand what you did back then...or what some else did, without simply copying the exact item.

It is psychologically different when you consider C# and Db, because flats make you think downwards and sharps make think upwards, thus when you think C# you may think it's going up to a D something, where as if you think Db, you might tell yourself why not go to a C next. Yes, there are exceptions ie A7 - D7 C# might resolve to C, but generally sharps make you think up, flats make you think down, be it alphabet or numeral.

--Edit: forgot to add example --
Therefore, it isn't about what is present right now, but more about your way of thinking. One of the commercial works I've done included a chord progression involving tritone substitution. If I write it out like this: Gmaj7b5 - D#m7b5 - G#7b9#11 | Em7 - A7#9 - Dm7 - C#7#11 - Cmaj9, you might go wtf. I believe I will go wtf if I were to look back at this after a while.

However, if I were to write it as Gmaj7#11 - Ebm7b5 Ab7b9b5 | Em7 - A7#9 - | Dm7 ... then if you know a bit about jazz theory then you can say oh okay G lydian means it begins on the 4th scale degree, going through an A7 - Ab7 (tritone substitution of D7) - G7 progression, but reversing the position of Ab and A and substituting the dominant chords with 25s, creating another 251 in between (E-A-D), using a tritone substitution of G7 and spell it out as C#7#11(since the melody is B, which is the 7th thus a chordal tone, rather than a B in Db7..where it might get confusing when writing vocal harmonies), and lands on a C maj9. I can understand that and replicate it with similar methodology, rather than matching chord by chord.

 

Last edited: Oct 19, 2015

They should make a piano roll with 12 fruit names, one for each note. No black and white notes. That would hopefully make people think a bit about their preconceived notions and question their dogmatic views.

 

maybe u r the one who needs some refreshment in music history.I won t go any further. U and foster are the same.
Uf u use those fucking numbers u love so much they won t teach a fuck,because that moron who started this thread doesnt understand the concept of interval, otherwise he wouldn t use only flat,no dickhead in the world would do that.And even if he did, u don t practice intervals calling the notes with numbers,u call them with their names.Unless in rteal life u call a C major a 1 major because names mean nothing to u. And if u keep on supporting him by saying that enharmony is outdated because there is the piano roll, so if u arbitrarily name an interval with its enharmonic equivalent because they sound the same, not only do u need music history lessosn, but music theory and harmony lessons too

 

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Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2018

Now you're making tables based on all the possibilities but restricted to the 7 natural notes? It could have a meaning if you understood anything about modes... but again, if you did, you wouldn't be making this crap.


Seriously man, this is getting retarded. Just start by learning the basics and you'll soon realize you've been wasting time with this shit.


You can choose any school you want to represent your intervals, any method, any theory... but please, just pick one. Your random mathematical ramblings on intervals is making you chase your own tail, just like it happened to your "chord study"... you got the "how to build them" part but forgot the "how to use them" and subsequent chapters.

 

Last edited: Oct 19, 2015

U have a problem.It would be so simple starting from scratch , learning some theory and practice on intervals, yet u keep on wasting time with this grids and tables.
Honestly? I won t add anything more to this thread since u don t want to understnad

 

Last edited: Oct 20, 2015

I am really thankful to your and other peoples comments. They are so valuable for me.
Please just be happy!

 

Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2015

apologies for overeacting, nonetheless your workflow is completely wrong

 

Jesus I am so glad I bowed out of this ridiculous thread when did. duskwings let them (or are they one in the same) do what they like. They are right and alwys will be lmao.

 

Foster, please tell me your tables are troll tables...

 

The sad thing is that in this day and age we still have people who are proud of shielding themselves within their narrowmindedness when it would be much easier to use your brain to think a bit and then do your own research before telling other people that they are wrong just because they showed you a way that differs from what you know.

Ignorance might be bliss but MUSIC isn't the same thing as western traditional NOTATION.

If you're so deep into the rules of staff writing (which means NOTATION, not MUSIC), the least you could do is look for why it is the way it is.

Anyways, if the conclusion you take from my writings is that I know nothing about music, then maybe you're not ready for that kind of research on your own. Keep dabbling on what you were taught, don't ever ask "why" about anything.

 

Some people feel "scared" when they are presented with other ways of understanding things, as if there could be only one right way of doing it.

That's why it is very important to be aware of CONTEXT.

Having said that, there's absolutely nothing wrong with an all sharps/flats approach to piano roll, it is chromatic anyways so it doesn't matter one bit because, just like MIDI info, it doesn't care for key signatures BUT... foster911, your method really does suck because it won't accomplish intervalic knowledge and neither will it help you understand keys, scales, chords and all that.

 

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Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2018

foster911,

Numeric charts are widely used because they express the mathematic relation (absolute) of intervals in a chromatic fashion. That's why you often see all the alterations as either sharps or flats, it's for consistency. In some cases (chords for instance) you might see sharps and flats mixed up and that's also correct because they represent the alteration to a degree, not to a key signature (remember, chromatic has no key signature).

Those tables let you apply an intervalic structure in a very fast and understandable way to any given root (the "1").


Now the problem is that you don't know what you're doing with these!!




Information IS NOT knowledge... KNOWING is knowledge.


edit: BTW, I am not just talking out of my ass when I say that you don't know what you 're doing. The way you treated chords in your other compositions and all these repetitive tables that you posted are what gave it away. Once you really KNOW what all this stuff is about, then you 'll realize why I said this.

Your intentions are good but your methods are sticking your head into algebra and you're totally forgeting about music.

 

Last edited: Oct 20, 2015

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Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2018

foster911,

I understand what you're trying to do.

Now take a minute to understand what I am trying to tell you. That "check in the table" methodology won't help beginners in any way. It's like giving a baby a crutch to teach him how to walk. Learning this stuff is not about "a quick check in the table", put that in your head.

Avoid all those tables and with time you'll know the distances between pitches. If you think of it (REALLY think, don't check tables) you'll find out that the 12 notes (chromatic) are a circle and you can apply ANY numeric formula to it.

Turning something that is a simple circle with 12 points into long repetitive tables that extend through many octaves for absolutely no reason (it's all repetition after all) is the equivalent of you going back in time to invent the square wheel.



If you feel like you have enough knowledge to help the beginners as you say, who I am I to tell you otherwise..

I still think you should learn some stuff at this point, not teach.


Good luck!

 

Last edited: Oct 20, 2015

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Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2018

You could start by applying one of your basic chord formulas: R - b3 - 5 (minor chord)

R is A, b3 is C and 5 is E. It gives you a triangle.

Now you can easily see that if you keep that shape and rotate it you'll always get a minor chord because the formula will always be the same.

Now don't use this as a crutch either, use it to UNDERSTAND!!