What is the best possible way to compose classical/orchestral music on a DAW (especially on Ableton

AviatOfficial · Nov 23, 2014

tidus1990 said: ↑

You absolutely need music theory. Id recommend school, n i guess u can pick up a book n teach yourself but why would u wanna do that when it comes to such a complex subject. You are eventually gonna have questions.
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Thanks for your reply

AviatOfficial · Nov 23, 2014

5t33z0 said: ↑

Thanks for the Link to the Channel! Much apprechiated!

Just saw this. Seamless R working on a track in FL Studio with some classical kind of string arrangement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Z2l00tikM
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Thanks for your reply

That video was really awesome!
I guess I watched his videos earlier and kinda missed this *yes*

AviatOfficial · Nov 23, 2014

User 137 said: ↑

Sorry Nocturne I personally disagree with most of what you have written

Personally that's rubbish imo. Many world class musicians have stated that once they learned musical theory or 'correctness' it opened up a whole different dimension. You can't simply say a deep seated understanding of musical theory stifles creativity. More often than not these people already know how to play this stuff but learning Theory normally gives them a whole other multide of options especially creatively wise i.e in guitar linking modes i.e Dorian etc etc can lead you to the point of being able to effectively improvise over any given chord structure.

Of course Musical theory is of vital importance when wanting to further your knowledge of Classical Music.

However that is not to say you can't then apply what is correct & create something completly new. For example Eric Johnson applied it to Hexatonic scale structures out of his vast profound knowledge of Pentatonic shapes & how they linked across the fretbord so how did his deep seated knowledge of correctness stifle creativity in that sense? I'm not saying you must learn but if you do it will definitely serve you better in the long run with regards to creativity 'outside the box'.

I would say what is paramount is to listen, listen & listen again and try and attach your ears to the various scale shapes ect till you become so familiar that thinking about becomes second nature. Then take stock & re analyze. Then you will have the best grounding available upon which to expand your creativity & understand what you are doing & which direction you wish to take it.

Also I would suggest that Ableton is possibly not the best choice of DAW but that is always up to you. It is a very long road & I wish u the best of luck *yes*
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Massive thanks for your reply

I'm with you here,Music theory is a must for Orchestral music and for composing any good music as Catalyst said.

I'm listening a lot of good stuff but any recommendation of awesome artists would be great! *yes*

About DAWs,I'm really acquainted with Live for now.Live has some issues(very minor ones tho .Very excited for their next/new version!)

AviatOfficial · Nov 23, 2014

5t33z0 said: ↑

I had music theory, historical organology and formal music history in my sound design school last year, which I thought sucked ass in the beginning but in the end REALLY expanded my mind in terms of thinking about sound and its impact! So I think I can give you a little bit of strategic insight. Here's what I think you should do in order to build a skillset for composing classical music. These need to be developed in parallel and can help you a lot. Don't feel overwhelmed. This takes a while.

Listen to the Classical Music of all eras: From the Middle Ages to Renaissence to Barock (mainly Bach) to Wiener Classic (Haydn, Mozart and esp. B E E T H O V E N), Romantic (early, middle, late; Brahms <> Wagner – basically all film scoring is based on the principals of the late romantic era), so-called post-tonal and other concepts of Music (Music after 1913/45), Listen to Jazz also to see how to break/bend the rules ;)

Educate yourself on the basic ideas and concepts of music and life/society of every of these epochs and try to understand HOW music relates to that

Learn what types of Methods of composing, forms and ideas about music every epoch devoloped, which remained, which faded away and why.

Try to develop a sense of how music is structured and how to distinguish one epoch from another. Because this will help you in getting the feeling you want to evoke certain emotions.

In order to do so you need to understand basic MUSIC THEORY – it is mandatory and fundamental! You are almost there if you UNDERSTAND this thoroughly: What is a scale? What's major? What's Minor? What's a Chord? What's a Chord inversion? When do I us it? What's a Dominant 7th Chord? (Understanding the concept of this one entirely is actually of utmost importance! It's THE key to swithing between Modes and Scales flawlessly) What are the tonal relations inside a scale (like Chords, their qualities, their tonal Relationships and their emotional impact) For this: Barock is a good starting point. Because it is structured relatively simple and is centered around the bass just like pop music.

Understand the Instrument Groups used in an Orchestra how they are organized sonically and how they interact with one another. MOST IMPORTANT: use the instruments in their intended tonal and loudness range and their style of playing! You cannot use a piccolo flute for example and play it in the Range of c1 to c2. Here's a picture of the carnegie Hall chart for reference: http://www.gcmstudio.com/imagesonly/carnegie_note.jpg >> Put it on your wall

Learn and understand metrics, note lengths and measures and their impressions… in other words: learn to count. Theres a difference in expression in a 3/4 measure versus a 6/8 measue!

Try to learn read musical scores or at least have a look at them. You will see that there are a lot of layers present. Try to understand the basic articalations

Train your ears by trying to recognize intervals. It helps you a lot in composing…

Use this awesome youtube channel to see visualizations of classical scores music: https://www.youtube.com/user/musanim

Also important: Find a DAW you like to work with and you know thoroughly in order to route stuff from Kontakt or whatever to different channels when working with big Libraries! I strongly oppose using Notation Software in the beginning when you're coming from a whole other musical Background. Save that for later maybe. You only really need a notation software if you actually work with an orchestra who needs the notes to play! Last but not least, go to http://imslp.org/ and bookmark it. There you will find all types of scores that are in public domain. Some with MIDI files to import in your DAW and play around with It's a great resource.

I hope this helps.
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Massive thanks for your awesome and informative reply

Great help there,really appreciate it *yes*

IMSLP is a wonderful site,tons of scores and music to explore :dancing:

Yep,I'm very much good with Live....so no changes there!

And once again thanks!

AviatOfficial · Nov 23, 2014

Nocturne said: ↑

I disagree almost completely.

How to read and write sheet music not needed at all if You are "in box" producer/composer ( or You can always export recorded midi session and software will translate everything to sheet music if needed)

From my experience I can tell that having deep music theory knowledge is somewhat useful and at the same time it's holding back Your creativity
( Just because You know what is optimal and desired standard You might not do any experiments.. and make something ...different, and much often great composition)

You can build amazing tracks just by having those "piano skills".

Base melody (getting a good idea is most difficult part) >> adding sections ( filling spectrum ) >> harmonies >> drums and filler sounds
This is only one of methods of approaching comp.

Start doing covers of favorite tracks and start braking them down one by one.
You will notice most type of patterns (so much for music theory) and with that as a base You can develop Your own style.

Regards

Noctrune
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Thanks for your reply

I'm remaking some of Zimmer's work.Very hard tho .But yes I'm improvising

meggedu2 · Jun 25, 2015

I believe that music breaks the rules of life in itself. To compare music making and production to coding is a bit off in my opinion. To code you must study and work hard to get things to work exactly how you want it to work. In music making and production you can actually have something wonderful happen (that makes your mix) completely on accident. Yes you must know how to mix in your Daw or whatever, but to create orchestral music or any kind of music you do not need theory. Some people were born with theory already coded in their DNA. Some people feel music vs understanding and studying it. By creating the base melodies and changes you can build upon framwork in order to achieve a destination. With programming and other things, a destination is already set and it is your job to get to the X. With music, I think it is very rare to start with something in mind, and end with that exact same plan. As with life, the journey is worth as much (if not more) than the destination.

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What is the best possible way to compose classical/orchestral music on a DAW (especially on Ableton

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What is the best possible way to compose classical/orchestral music on a DAW (especially on Ableton

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