Hello, since coming to this forum I discovered external sound cards. Can you guys please tell me the quality difference between internal and external? A lot of users recommended I get external sound cards with the knobs you can turn to control midi. I am curious to how they differ from internal cards such as asus, ht omega, and creative etc. Thanks in advance.

 

I'm not sure they told you the knobs will control MIDI... A MIDI keyboard will, but not a sound card ! On a Sound card you will mostly find volumes and sometimes Gain and a few more different options on each card.

Then, I guess an internal sound card would be faster. But I'm not a computer geek...

At last I don't think there's a huge difference between internal vs external !


BUT there's a lot of differences between sound cards like Creative, Asus, etc... who are more MULTIMEDIA oriented, and on another hand recording oriented sound cards like Line6, AVID, RME, MOTU, Focusrite etc, etc... To name just a few.

I guess you're searching for a low price card ? Have a look at Line 6 UX series (With guitar/bass amp simulations) or AVID cards (If you want Pro Tools)

 

Thanks, a gentleman on this forum recommended me these 4 sound cards.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/QuadCapture

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/presonus-audiobox-usb-2x2-usb-recording-system

http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Edirol-UA25EX-USB-2.0-Stereo-Audio-Interface/3449919/product.html

http://www.lexiconpro.com/en-US/products/lambda

Do these cards work on multimedia? How do they differ from asus, ht omega, and creative? I plan to only use vst as of this moment. I was also told that asus is crap.

 

Hm, I guess there arent really differences. There are differences between the price classes. I think external Soundcards are more expensive, the USB version of my soundcard cost like 40€ more...

Maybe the cables of an external soundcard could cause problems, but I think the companys know how to avoid those problems.

The main question is: Do you need an external soundcard? Look for features soundcards in your price-range have, and decide if these features are important to you.

I never heard of a soundcard controlling midi... You can controll the volume, mainly. Maybe somebody though its midi, because he had a driver software with which you also can control the volume, and which changes its volume when you turn the knob.

But Im pretty sure you cant take control of your DAW.

 

actually there is a big difference; an internal/pci sound card handles not only the rendering of the audio but also works in unison with cpu since it is integrated with the motherboard and does the processing of the effects as well and only has the cpu help with that in extreme cases... just like a separate video card handles all the graphics when playing games...

an external sound card handles the rendering of the audio but leaves the effects processing to your cpu which can drag down your computer when handling many vst's and effects plugs: it also eats up cpu bandwidth by having to handle all the data on the usb hub....


i have the Delta 1010-LT running on an older 2ghz single core 32bit intel cpu with only 4 gigs of ram and it can handle 17 massives with automation and effects plugs before stuttering...


m-audio makes great pci-sound cards and the Delta 1010-LT is the highest end one they have and you can buy them on amazon for around $170 but they also have less expensive ones that work great as well...


http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.family&ID=PCIinterfaces

 

Sound cards differ greatly depending whether you want 7.1 surround sound (multimedia) or music production. The multimedia cards are not really designed for music production, they will do the job, but with a card designed for music production they will provide input/outputs for all your midi controllers / keyboards / mixers / instruments / microphones / etc

 

I'd suggest you to go with an internal M-Audio or RME PCI or PCIe card, as that's the best quality, speed, and least troublesome you can get, but you didn't say what your needs are. If you need to connect some microphones or guitars... if that's the case, and you can't afford both internal and external card [which is the best quality combination], then some of these external USB cards would be better, but I suggest you to go with some card with better drivers like RME Babyface, or Focusrite Saffire, or TC Electronic Impact Twin. I suggest the last two a bit reluctantly, but I've heard even worse stories about Roland drivers, Presonus hardware failures, and Lexicon drivers. I can't stress enough how important a good driver is. Think about it - if the driver gives you a headache, you can just throw away a perfectly great and quality audio card.

That's why I bought an internal PCI RME card [9652], that I got for 300E btw, because I just didn't want to risk having any troubles, and it feels great knowing that your audio card is working reliably and optimally. It is really worth the money. But if you go with RME 9652 you need an external ADDA converter [it's all digital card with digital I/O only] so you could record microphones, guitars, synths, or process some tracks through external analog audio processors. I use TC Konnekt 48 for that purpose, but the best bang for the buck would be Focusrite OctoPre Dynamic, in my opinion. Or some Presonus preamp like Digimax. I bought TC Konnekt 48 because I needed a standalone audio "card" [rack] for field recording, and it's got the best DSP FX of any external audio cards, and great preamps and converters which I like.

If you really need something on the cheaper side that works reliably, I'd suggest you to look up M-Audio Audiophile 192 or 2496. I used both and can vouch for them. If you need more analog inputs and outputs I don't think anything can beat a RME 9632 PCI or PCIe version. I know that one pretty well, too. That is a remarkable audio card and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. You can connect a cheap preamp [M-audio DMP-3 or Presonus BlueTube, for instance] to it, so that you can record microphones or guitars, since it's got analog inputs and outputs, even a direct monitoring output for the headphones for the singer. Great card with great drivers. I really don't know anything better for around 400E. Maybe aforementioned M-Audio Delta 1010, since drivers for M-audio 2496/192/Delta are the same. The only problem with M-Audio ASIO drivers is that they're not multi-client [RME ones are multi-client], so you can only use one pro audio app at the time.

I'm just speaking from my personal experience, and all I have experience with is some M-Audio, lots of RME and TC Electronic, some SSL and DIGI-002 [both have shitty drivers IME], M-Box, Presonus, Focusrite. That's pretty much it. Oh, and I have a Creative ExtremeMusic X-Fi rotting somewhere in one of the boxes... [along with the aforementioned M-Audio 2496 , good card] I did use it for some time around 10 years ago. it's alright for an occasional musician who fiddles with VST on weekends, but you can forget about recording something properly through it, since it's connectivity is zero. So forget Creative, ASUS and similar, that's for gamers and people who watch DVDs and BluRays. Seriously. But maybe that's what you need, as you didn't tell us much about your needs. ;)

Cheers!

 

Of course ! But you can't control MIDI from the front panel ! (

)


Roland Quad Capture is very well appreciated so I'd personally go for that one but they're all good and serious products.

 

Jonathan
I think you are a little confused as to the information that was imparted to you. The members in this thread have given you some great advice so I think you're set. I'd just add that for most purposes I would say an internal sound card is going to be just fine for you and you will get a lower latency than you would with an external USB/Firewire device. However if you need many external inputs then you would do better with an external sound card as internals usually only offer 2 inputs and offer no preamps. Externals offer more inputs and usually come with a preamp built in so that saves you money and is more convenient in that you don't have to buy it separately.

 

i don't know which price range you're in, but i can tell you i really like my apogee duet 2 to this day. great little thingy!

 

Hi,

I came across this thread, as well as another (pretty old) thread @ http://mtippach.proboards.com/thread/2036

Both threads are not exactly talking about the same thing - but that old thread was about using embedded "sound chips" on the motherboard, and if I may expand this conversation a little bit, may I ask the gurus here of your opinion, as I am new in the DAW scene and am still learning


If what I am asking had already been asked before, please accept my apology

Ok, here goes

Most of the recommended "internal sound cards" (not the super high priced ones) are PCI based, and most of them are pretty dated (some can trace their origins back to mid 2000's or even older) - if we are to compare the "ooomph" of those sound cards to the embedded sound chips (most of them are from Realtek anyway) of a new motherboard ...

My question being --- Are the new embedded sound chips as powerful as the not-so-new PCI-based soundcards ?

If what I am asking had already been asked before, please accept my apology.

I will appreciate very much for any suggestion from any of the gurus

Thanks again !

 

I cannot say this for sure since Im not that familiar with the topic, but I doubt that a realtek chip on your motherboard is as good as a PCI Soundcard, simply for three reasons:
1) Realtek dont focus on audio production-based hardware. Its like the difference between hifi speakers and studio monitors, the target audience is completly different and they have completly different needs and expectations
2) my PCI Soundcard is big, bigger as the chip on my motherboard. Im pretty sure theres a reason for that...
3) You'll have a different audio insert (or output, or whatever... that place where you put the cables in). before I had a PCI soundcard I just had a normal 3,5mm plug, for everything. Now I have two for left & right, 2 for recording, a midi plug and other stuff I dont need now, but may need someday

I think its simple, these chips on motherboards just arent designed for audio production. Theres a reason why every audio PC has either an extra Soundcard or an AudioInterface.

 

Hello,

i need your help and experience about a question partially answered in this thread, so this is the reason i haven't opened a new one.

Sinewave wrote above: "The only problem with M-Audio ASIO drivers is that they're not multi-client [RME ones are multi-client], so you can only use one pro audio app at the time."

1) Synthetic question (the short way)

May you suggest me an internal pci or pci-e soundcard with multi-client drivers considering i'm a week-end player ?

2) Analytical question (the long way)

Having said i'm not a pro: just have fun sometimes playing a master keyboard with some apps: nothin more.

And i used to have an ancient sblive pci connected to the midi keyboard and an x-fi pci as main sound card (i already imagine your scandalized faces .
With these two cards i was able to open more than one audio apps (i.e FM7, Absynth, Korg, ecc. standalone version) and play all of them contemporarly with sblive midi driver.

because SBLive has no win7 drivers and i'm installing on a new hd that operating system, i had the opportunity to buy an audiophile 2496 (that has win7/8 drivers), convinced that if a shitty sblive can do my job, why a more decent soundcard wouldn't ??!!

And at voila, no more than one app playing at the same time: (((

So, without spend lots of money, is there a decorous internal soundcard with multi-client drivers ?
Maybe, upgrading my x-fi with the i/o module (internal 5 1/4 bay) and get rid of the second soundcard could help me ?


Thanks for your time and infos

 

DAWBENCH.COM IS THE SITE TO READ TO FIND OUT rtl #'S ON INTERFACES. BURN THAT INTO YOUR MEMORY.

That being said according to extensive test theat they have done there are a few leaders in the field and the shortest RTL (round trip latency ) is what you want in an interface.

Among cheap PCI cards the ESI is the best. $200
RME and Lynx score the highest. Your looking at $3000 or so for top of the line
Firewire the best deal is a Mackie Onyx. $500
the best USB interface is by RME. its about $750

I have read that there are 2 new tascam cheapies in the USB market that have RTL's that are supposedly low enough to brag about because they have developed their own drivers in house. Most interfaces rely on the drivers that are third party provided.

Is it a real world # is what I question, they have not supplied Daw bench a test unit to put the product through an independent third party for testing to see if their claim of sub 5ms RTL is factual. I guess they would not want to risk making claims that are not true because if testing should prove otherwise then it is on them to refund or face a class action law suit from the FTC and consumers. I have an interest in getting a new interface to upgrade from my one track at a time line 6 interface.

Latency is more of an issue with drummers than guitar players but the shorter the RTL the better you will be. you never know when a drummer will be involved in a project.

In professional studios they always use desktops not laptops because they want the added speed of having PCI interfaces. If you are going after a firewire interface be aware that all firewire interfaces in computers are not equal in quality and that is something you will need to research separately.

 

google tascam and RTL then you will find a link that is from the cakewalk forum were the post #81 on page 3 from the thread title interesting news from Tascam AES.

the thread mentions the RTL of the new interfaces I was mentioning above. I would put the link but for some reason the forum is not allowing me to right click.
they claim that in testing the RTL it showed a 4.3ms with 96hz and 64 sample buffer.

the 4X4 is $249 and the 2x2 is $149 if the latency they are getting is accurate and I suspect it is then these are the only USB interfaces to consider getting as they are getting RTL numbers far better than any other USB interface up to the cost of the RME baby face which is $749.