Hi guys,

I have a quick question - do you use samples you have not bought / that have not been licensed to you in your productions?
As we all know you can get a lot of samples / sample packs in the internet without buying them in offical stores. Or you get samples from friends or collaborators.
I totally support all sound designers and developers (and buy the stuff I really use) but sometimes there is just a small sample - that you probably won`t even hear in the final production. To buy a whole smaple pack for like 30-40 $ (or even more) just for that is something that does not make sense to me (and probably to most of us).
How do you normally do this?
And what if it comes to samples that you really hear, like whole drum or melody loops? Do you use such samples in productions you realease and do the guys who make these samples really control that?

I am really interested in you point of view regarding this topic.

Cheers Ceja

 

I could be wrong but it seems insane to me that they would even have the capability to identify individual drum hits. Especially since you'll be compressing and eqing the heck out of them and god knows what else.

As far as drum loops, I don't know. It gets more recognizable when used raw so I'd stick to stuff you own to be on the safe side. If you're using it as a base for sound design and you're pitching/phasing/etc, again i doubt they'd be able to tell.

 

@ Zero-frag,

It depends of your own Location (Country) and the Copyright Lawsuits related to that specific Location (Country), but normally the 'Copyrights' in Music are only related to the 'Melodies', not even to the 'Harmonies'. In any way to 'Drums', 'Drum One-Shots', nor even 'Drum Loops' ! *no*

 

Download stuff and use it for your own music, then its up to your own moral code if you pay for it or not.

Anything that you release, you pay for the stuff you use to make it.

If a sample is that important to your song that you have to use it, just pay whoever made the sample. FFS, it aint rocket science.

 

Like Studio 555 said depends upon your country & also of course in what context the material used.

Also check the Disclaimers & individual agreements & culpability etc

In most countries the only part of a song that are worth copyright are the 'lyrics' & the melodies.

In general copyright of beats/drum parts normally falls way off somewhere else & explicit protection is in general a complete waste of time/money as the defense would be very straight forward in that u could simply point out numerous 'similar' if not exact replications.

It would be almost impossible to prove & almost certainly would be instantly dismissed & in all probability never brought in the first place due to legal fees etc.

However simply bunching up a load of loops & selling them off as your own of course would be an entirely different matter

 

Technically you're using copyrighted material if you're using samples that you jacked without a license. It's generally impossible to discern it however, unless it's something iconic like some old hits off an old emulator or something, but most of those old samples are so ubiquitous now that nobody will bother to check and see if you have a floppy disc of it.

If you record a song's piano melody and use that recording as a sample then you're gong to get slammed.. if you recreate it as your own new melody or arpeggiation then you probably will be in the clear, since melodies and harmonies are generally considered too common to be unique. But you better expect to be called a thief by the original composer if it sounds identical and you don't contact them beforehand.

 

Hi guys,

I have another question regarding this topic. There are so many libraries out there, especially for Kontakt and in the field of "cinematic" music, like strings, brass, percussion, effects and so on. I am sure you know what I mean.
Some of them are really top notch and are also used on big commcerical productions (for example in hollywoord and scoring big movies). If a producer now wants to get into that business, I think a certain standard of sound and quality is needed and these libraries really help to get that sound.
Unfortunately these libraries are really expensive, which I totally understand, because there is so much work in creating them. But on the other hand, isn`t is a bit crazy to invest a few thousand dollars into something that might never pay off? We all know how competitive the whole music world is.
I totally agree that everybody how makes money with the tools he uses, he should pay the developers. But what if you need these tools first - to make that money?
And now I come to the point of that whole question Do you use libraries you got from a friend or found in the internet for (commercial) productions?
And is there any way companies can "hear" that you used their libraries? If you layer several string sections for example, put an eq on them and they get mastered where are also compessors, eqs and stuff - is there any way where you can get problems?
I think this is a difficult question and I am interested to hear your opinion. As said before I think we all should support the developers when we like their stuff and use it. But what if you can`t afford it (yet) but you need these tools to get to a point where you eventually can? And if one uses these tools, are there any possibilites of getting problems, getting sued and so on for using them?

 

It's unlikely you'll be in trouble for layering "pirated" samples. There's no easy way of recognizing particular sample in dense mix. Even with solo instruments, it's quite questionable, unless auditory watermark is added to each sample, though no-one did it so far (only watermarks in sample metadata are used).
And even if someone cross-reference it, you may claim that you lost the registration e-mail, was a victim of a identity theft, etc, etc. basically it proves nothing.
It all breaks down into how ethical is your personality.
Some people (even pros do it!) just use everything pirated.
Some people get the stuff they can afford, the rest are pirated, however as soon as they have money, they buy the pirated content and re-render their tracks.
Others use solely and only what they buy.

Again it all breaks down into your ethical values and morale. In my opinion, the best way is the second one - since it a) proves if you're skilled enough for commercial production, b) you won't be misjudged based on your budget for libraries (and thus audio 'quality' of your content) vs. those who can afford to buy them, c) you can sort out the useful stuff and the trash and d) it's a fair way for both parties (you & the devs) since you either test and throw away their stuff or buy it, so in the end no-one's money is wasted *yes*

Just my 3c *yes*

 

There are already threads on this subject. Please search before posting.

 

Hi Andrew,

thanks a lot for your answer.
I totally understand what you are saying and agree with all of it. I think the second way you described is indeed a really good way.
I was just curious if it is likely to get trouble if one uses a pirated sample / library from time to time. But I also can`t imagine how one can hear a single samples / instrument out of a mix where are for example 4 or 5 different string samples and layers. That is impossible, isn`t it? Even if the sound has a certain characteristic like a vibrato, realease or breath sound - when it is mixed together with all the other instruments, I really don`t know if anybody will or even can notice that sound.