Hey Guys, I made my first orchestral track. What do you think ? .



Used: Symphobia 1+2, Miroslav Philharmonik Orchestra, Stormdrum, Epic Horns

Thanks

 

Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2015

Hi Syntey and welcome to Audiosex!
great melody and grandioso finale. I might have two cents that will make it even better. That is if you're open to critique. *yes*

 

YES!! I love it . It's only my first track so I need to learn some new things, and critique is very good way to make it better.

Thank you

 

Since you also asked it in your description (if we have anything that resembles it)...

It sounds a lot like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGcIkqPTHo0

And maybe a little of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H25iM7eRiIQ

It could be a subconscious influence (those are widely played). Even if you copied it and changed it, it's not too bad but there are quite a few things you could improve. Mimicking is good for the learning/evolving process. It looks like you're after that style anyway. Listen to those and others and you'll get some ideas about how you can expand on it. Now, to the specifics:

- You need some leads.

- A melody or more themes/motifs would be nice, though not required (all these intertwine)

- It sounds pretty thin/lacks impact. You could "produce" it a bit to fill up the frequencies with more power, but I would advise orchestrating it and giving layers/voices to more instruments/melodies/harmonies

- The transitions have gaps

- Some reverb could come in handy

- Some (more) percussion could help, as it's usually the driving pattern of these tracks along with the ostinatos (repetitive patterns - mostly on strings)

Generally, I'd tell you to work on it a bit more and try to build on it.

 

Yeah, you're right, I heard it few times, but it was subconscious :D ..Two Steps From Hell are my big inspiration

In this case I didn't hear something what could be lead so..

I was thinking about it, but I had only 4GB RAM (now 6GB, but it's still not much) and this project took it all :D

Can you explain it more specifically ?

I will work on that..

Yes, you're right, probably I won't use Stormdrum again, it takes too much RAM and samples are good only in their player. Damage from Native Instruments is better for me.


Thank you for your words!!

 

Hehe. I listen to quite a few of their tracks every day. My ears don't like it too much though.

Yeah. It's not mandatory but a hook would be cool. (See my version at the end of the post)

I understand that. I've been there. Make sure you purge every now and then. (Or at least you have only the samples that you need loaded)

Sorry, I meant that the transitions aren't very fluid. I thought I head abrupt cuts of note tails during the previous listen but now I heard it again and it's really not that important. It's ok. Somehow I got a worse/wrong impression previously.

Experiment a bit with it. You can also watch some tutorials on bussing/grouping instrument groups etc. for efficiency and lower resource consumption (although I assume you could do it in a different project with rendered stems if you're more traditional).

Whatever suits you. Just consider layering and volume/compression/velocities (to increase impact).


Here, I had quick take on it (I like to put what I say in practice!):
http://uptobox.com/3qc7sx5c2kpa

It was a good exercise for me, too. I think it will be clearer this way. Enjoy

No problem. Keep practising. You can get there.

 

Wow! Awesome .
What VSTs did you use ?

I hope i will get some money for new equipment soon.

 

Mostly EWQLSO. And then some Stormdrum, Cinematica, Ethno World Voices and the Kontakt Factory Library High Whistle... Don't be fooled, they don't sound so 'powerful' by themselves. Some production went into it, too. (Although, I pretty much threw the fx on it, didn't tweak very much) Oh, and an impulse from the VSS3 reverb. Of course, the "better" the initial sound and the more it fits with what you're doing then it's certainly better. It still needs some fine-tuning but this was for demonstrational purposes, anyway. But you had a good underscore going.

 

I for one recommend Spitfire Audio libs. Yet the sound is not as Epic as EWQLSO, but has great depth and intimacy. As for example, check out my older track, made exclusively with SF:
http://soundcloud.com/andrew479/beginning-of-an-adventure

Any questions about this track, how to do this or that, I'll gladly answer.
As for the critique, I missed some "glue" that would help the ostinato blend together *yes*

Orchestral Tools + Spitfire Audio + 2cAudio B2 = perfect blend

BTW, you can make great track even with 512MB RAM *yes*
The magic there is to learn to freeze/bounce tracks

 

Personally, I don't know if I'd recommend Spitfire for epic stuff (although the Runs/Fast legatos in Sable and other things it has, are awesome), but it's certainly an option. In epic tracks you'll most likely need to "produce" quite hard. So, you'll also raise the room ambience and the inherent noises of the library. Even with all the mics of the 1st violins, for example, I added a Front QLSO patch and it made it that much better (added some lushness). And that was for a waltz... You'd generally want sounds more in your face. (Or layer different patches)

That said, that room sound is great for a lot of styles (and for the realism and not messing with reverbs). Another issue is with the shorts. They're not too "bitey" and pronounced and quite soft (and kinda loose), when you actually need the opposite (typically). With work anything can sound good but some sounds are just better for some styles. Mural can go pretty fast though (they've added two new shorts in Vol. 2 and they'll most likely add fast runs/legatos and ...shorter shorts [something more like the Staccato Digs in the basses] in Vol. 3 - when they make it). Most libs would be able to pull it off, albeit a bit differently. LASS is also a very good option (but needs reverbs, etc.). And Symphobia for the impact (which was used here, with 1 mic). Symphobia doesn't have separate sections and you may need that in the future. But that's for you to decide. I'm just pointing out some things.

Also, for resources, Spitfire is more hungry (although you can use less mics or freeze). And the basses are not very focused and kinda boomy.

As for the ostinato, I think that's because he used shorts that go more towards marcato than staccato/spiccato.

Andrew, there is some hiss on the right side of your track. I can clean it if you want. What are you using from Orchestral Tools?

Two quick renders with LASS and Mural:
http://uptobox.com/q8n6dtsaufnx
http://uptobox.com/srd7vtsrg7dy

P.S. Don't forget the tightness (and releases) sliders in Mural!

 

You don't have to, that track was simply an experiment of what I can be done with 700MHz CPU and 512MB RAM .
Still I can't quite put my finger on your previous example for Syntey. My apologies, but that sounded rather bad. Little to no dynamics, everything was loud only.

I reckon T. Bergersen compose this way, for which I'm not his fan and won't buy his music (had to process his latest album Sun to be at least listenable). And so I wonder why is compression necessary in Trailer/Epic music. There are dozens of tracks in my library which sound big and still breathe and the waveform looks unaffected. When there isn't quiet, there can be no loud
Audiomachine, especially their latest album sounds like crap.

Take a listen to Matthew Moore to hear what I mean:
http://picosong.com/fzjZ/

Perhaps Cameron McBride as well: http://picosong.com/fzmK/

--
From OT, nothing on this track. *no*

 

I think it's more about impact and being in your face, not soft vs loud. I do agree that most of the tracks are ridiculously loud (5-6 DR). If I'm in the mood I'll listen to it at 100% volume but usually I'll turn it down to 70-85% and think to myself: "Why so much? It sounds perfectly fine even with -10 to -15% volume". In the end, as always, it's a preference of sound, as with everything. I still think it sounds amazingly clean and balanced, even with that much processing.

My example was mostly an example of what I thought he could add musically/compositionally, not necessarily something to guide him in terms of production (and, yeah, I said myself it wasn't very good).

Those tracks are fairly dynamic, yeah. I get what you mean. Although, on the second I hear artifacts and more the reverb than the actual instruments. When I make a space similar to that with samples, it's usually a no-go. The more defined, more in-your-face sound is preferred.

From OT, I mean generally. Maybe the harp?

Personally, I love this sound:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHhHOftZKBU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9n8ZKZwO_I


Oooh God, I get goosebumps. "I feel it through the floor. Terrific!"

 

Thanks for the videos!

Preferred by whom? By directors or general public?
Ultimately "in-the-face" tracks are so fatiguing that I subconsciously do not even consider them when picking what to listen. They may be overwhelming for the first time, gaining lots of sales, but on the 3rd run they just feel boring. Nothing going on in there, just loud white noise. It's so easy to discern in just about any high-grade headphones, like HD800 or K701, not so much on consumer or prosumer grade equipment.

BWW, EXP A, B, C
*yes*

 

Well, when I make a track with samples I usually take the more relaxed route and everyone I ask how it sounds says "No, that doesn't sound realistic at all" (especially if I play back trailer-type music). But, as I said, I think it's the result of the impact/clarity, not the loudness itself. The instruments are too much in the back, too lost, too weak". But I guess that could be because my mixing/editing is subpar, not necessarily because it's quieter. But, anyhow, if you're competing in that department, that's just how the typical sound is and that's pretty much the standard of this style. Plus, most such pieces are a hybrid genre, not exactly a traditional concert orchestra.

Examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_dqTf7ldhY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB00LZZzttI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJRPfCa_Lg0

Here's also a normal recodring (80 piece I think):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGuQ3RH8M3M

(Music in games tends to be quite loud)

So, as I said it's mostly down to what you write and what you prefer. You're not obliged to go this route (well, except if you work for someone else who requires it). I just said it's the typical sound and most likely what will be expected from tracks like those. Their purpose is to dramatise and excite and big impact is an important tool in that, along with catchy lines, speed (often not very humanly possible), etc. And they're used in media that want to hook you and leave you with a lasting impression. hitting hard tends to leave quite an impression. But, yeah, they can make you a bit deaf and can be quite sterile sounding.

But, even then, there are labels who won't accept to release a MIDI mock-up score commercially [as in an album], no matter how well it's produced. *yes* (I've heard of composers whose pieces were rejected for that reason alone, apparently because they just don't meet an expected quality standard)

Have another one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HXcdohW620

I think those guys have a great thing going.

 

Definitely a 2sfh feel love the sounds however definitely needs more melody and some evolution going on and percussion, the Ostinatos seemed a little over bearing with out the extra textures. I tend to make that mistake as well. Over all not bad, glad to have another score composer in the community