Hi, I am looking for a dedicated outboard reverb unit.

Primarily I play guitar & that is what the unit is going to be used for.

My first choice would be TC Electronic M4000.

However I am a little wary of investing such cash in a rack unit as in my past experience many rack units tend to 'suck tone' quite a bit.

The best alternative as far as I can work out is the Eventide Space. In theory I am going down the road that I will keep the reverb unit as the last FX pedal in my chain.

Ideally I want it to be true bypass in order as to preserve tone.

I was just wondering if anyone has used any other quality reverb pedals as an alternative or even rack based processors such as the Lexicon/TC that don't 'suck tone'

 

Amp have no fx loop?

If not, couldn't you split the signal before the reverb and use a double input mixing pedal last in the chain?

 

Have never tried that but not sure how it would work in setup

Last in the chain normally would be TC Flashback x 4 Delay with Stereo outputs so signal will be split anyway. All my time dependent FX are run in the FX loop so ideally I am just looking for a stereo reverb unit with Stereo in/out.

Like I mentioned my first choice would be TC M4000 but reluctant to use as mostly they colour the sound alot whereas say a true bypass reverb pedal with Stereo in/out run back into the FX loop of the amp.

So really am looking more toward just a quality type reverb pedal with stereo in/out. Have heard the nova is good but again there are problems with sucking tone so true bypass switching is the way I am looking to go.

Unless I didn't understand the method u meant which quite possible. My normal FX chain would be

Buddah wah run Keeley Compressor run to Xotic BB Preamp to Xotic RC Booster to Suhr riot reloaded. These would be run in front of the amp. In the FX loop I would run TC Corona Chorus to MXR Phase 90 to Flashback x4 to ???Reverb pedal??? with stereo out back into the fx loop of the amp

 

Ahhh, ok , so you use pedals before the amp, as well as the effects loop of the amp.

Have you read this?
http://neunaber.net/blogs/brian-s-notes/13827985-when-is-true-bypass-appropriate

Should make the choice easier

 

Some useful advice on this Youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djA3ZG3dHj0 , about how to not mess up your tone, though I think they get mixed up at one point and mean the opposite of how it comes across. Eventide never a bad choice

 

I highly recommend eventide!!

I have some of there pedals, modfactor, timefactor, and i love them. They can be set to true bypass or buffered. I recommend the buffered, gives it a little analog umph to it! And the reviews say the Space is the best one in the line up. I've never been a fan of TC electronic for some reason. I've used the nova drive and wasn't impressed. I used the g-system and wasn't impressed. Not impressed with the new line up of small pedals they have besides the flashback. My vote is definitely with eventide. Those guys just know how to make stuff sound good. Also, if you are seriously worried about losing tone try the RJM Music Tone Saver Buffer

 

I was going to post something very similar, tater_one. Thanks for saving my time.

Although, there is a world of difference between Eventide Space and TC M4000. Two different beasts, and TC M4000 is really not very practical for a guitar setup. If you want a rack reverb, I'd suggest you to rather go with Lexicon MX200 or 400 because IMO they are better suited for guitars, a bit more warmer, lusher sounding than TC. But really, Eventide Space should be awesome for you, I think, too!

And yes, it's got true bypass.

To keep in mind: I'm not a guitarist, but I record and mix guitars amongst other things [like repairing and assembling computers]. *yes*

 

Also, just wanted to add that there is a setting on the eventide factor pedals that took me a while to find. I can't remember the exact name, but it let you switch between two modes of internal processing. Like if you were using it in an effects loop it sets the internal mix to 100% wet or switches it to a mode where it is mixed internally to have good levels of sound if you were running it in front of an amp. These modes operate independently of the mix function setting for each preset. Its more like how loud the pedal or effect is internally. That setting made a huge difference for me since I am using them in an effects loop. So just wanted to add that I thought that was a very cool feature, and it did put the tone over the top once I set up my factor pedals correctly.

 

Thanks guys for all your responses it has helped me alot with making a choice. I agree with Tater_one about the TC stuff, I had heard about the Nova drive it was good but it's effect on the tone of a good tube amp was appalling. I also agree with Sinewave in that the TC M4000 is a monster but I would if possible like to stick to pedals rather than tack based units.
Again I have found through experience that they affect tone badly. Especially the TC G Major 2 (which claims to have true bypass function) & Even the G Force which you would expect from a near 1000 pound setup. I had an oldish Lexicon MPX reverb rack & allthough it did affect tone the Reverbs were really lush like Sinewave said. Problem was that the circuit chip on it burnt out in months & the unit was useless which put me off them. I read around & found that this was a commonish problem. Shame really coz they were great units.

I haven't tried the new MX units but like the way u can integrate the software with your DAW which could be well useful so they may be worth checking out.

Gangnam style, I think you are right to a degree about 'true bypass' about a bit of hype but I still think their something good in it. I do think with certain tube amps u can hear the difference. Maybe it;'s just me setting up wrong or something. Interesting article & a lot to learn though. The Neunaber is a huge sounding wet reverb pedal, sounds lush. . I think at this moment the best option would be The Eventide Space as I want to keep it a pedal based setup as much as possible. I would love an eventide eclipse but don't want to blow 1500 quid without checking the effects on the tone as it is rack based. The old Eventide H3000 would be nice to play wth but they hard to get hold of & going up in price all the time.

Thanks alot guys for your helpful responses is appreciated

 

I wasn't really bagging true bypass, i was just pointing out that the guys in the know on that page (and the link within it to another page) , pretty much lay out how to avoid tone suck from pedals when they are setup incorrectly.
Knowing if your pedals are buffered,unbuffered or true bypass is part of that, and knowing that you have a buffered pedal in a chain before a true bypass is needed if you want to avoid the tone suck from the cable after the true bypass pedal.

Essentially you need guitar-----buffered pedal-----unbuffered or true bypass pedals in that order, otherwise bad shit happens to the signal and causes tone suck.
(at least that is my understanding of it)

 

I also have a MX300, just got it actually less than a month ago. I haven't tried it on the guitar, but in the studio it is a solid performer. Not really a fan of using reverb on guitar, if i do, the crappy amp reverb is usually good enough for me. MX300 features that are awesome are the software daw integration, midi control, footswitch control, and it does have some sick reverb sounds. I would say a very slight tone suck is evident in the MX300. Not enough to bother me, I'm not really an audiophile, I just like to shred. Sorry haven't really used it on guitar, maybe this weekend I could test it on guitar and let u know what I think?

And also again, in response to Gangam's tone suck. He is right about buffered pedals if you ask me. I prefer if they have a buffer, that is my preference. But not all pedals have a good buffer. Again that RJM Music Tone Saver Buffer is exactly what would fix gangam's problem. Never tried it though.

I've also hear many good things about Electro Harmonix Cathedral reverb. But to me it seems a bit pricey for what it does. Doesn't have all the pitch shift and delay effects the Eventide Space has either.

 

Yes, i second opinion about buffer and impedance mismatch. Most "tone sucking" troubles are related to that.
And not only on guitars

When a device create unwanted distortion, high freqs loss, gain loss... it is probably impedance mismatch.

In guitar domain, it can be pedals, but amps too. Try to plug an active EMG (low-Z/line) on a picky Hi-Z vintage amp
Some old school wha wha pedals are picky, too. They don't like active/buffered impedance. The opposite of OP example.

An ALL true bypass chain is not so good...and all buffered too
There can be troubles with several chained buffered pedals, but less.

One separate buffer (or good pedal one) first, and all the rest true bypass is the way a lot of very picky guitar players set their chain.

 

Deffo agree Pipotron3000 *yes*

Different amps react differently to different pedals that's for sure. Some amps I've used hate certain types of pedals in the loop whereas they fine with others & some hate certain drive pedals, ect used in front of them.

Vintage amps especially fussy.

Am guessing that may be down to like u mentioned an impedance mismatch.

Is strange though that in my experience 'rack units' are far worse & some affect tone so badly. Is a shame really because their some fantastic rack units out their ie G-Force system ect but the effect they have on the tone makes them 'unusable' in my opinion.

Deffo reckon that a good pedal setup with a good amp is the tried & tested method. The only things really I reckon u need in a rack are your Good power conditioner/Preamp/Poweramp & maybe some signal distibution & possibly noise reduction. Racks on the way back so they say though!