I need to upgrade my interface since I want to record 3 mics at the same time (2x a/b x/y for guitar and 1 for vocals).

I can't decide (yet) between the Steinberg and the Focusrite.

http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/audio_interfaces/ur_series/models/ur44.html
http://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-18i8

The Steinberg is 50 euros cheaper in my country but the Focsurite has s/pdif which would benefit me since I can hook up my Focusrite VRM Box but this is no dealbreaker.

Essentially I'm looking for some feedback on these 2 AI's as for stability and most importantly sound quality.
Both seem to have decent pre-amps and the latency mentioned on fora is good as well so it's hard to decide without having hooked up one myself, hence the need for advice ;)

Aside from this singer/songwriter stuff I also produce EDM so aside from recording analogue through mics I also work with MIDI but again, both are equiped so..

Any words of wisdom?

 

There is a single big difference to me : UR44 got separate Mix 1 and Mix 2 on the back (Line Output 1/2 and 3/4)
You can make DJ/gig outputs with separate PA output AND headphone mix output.
But not more than two separate stereo outputs.

18i8 is different : 2 outputs line1/2 , 2 outputs headphone 1 (3/4), 2 outputs headphone 2 (5/6) and finally, 2 spdif ouputs
So you get 4 separate stereo outputs (if you count SPDIF output), instead of 2.

Scarlett preamps are VERY powerful AND clean. So powerful you may need to activate virtual mixer -10db Pad with powerful guitar pickups, even at lower gain It can important for some weak microphones signals.

I've seen more positive feedback for Scarlett serie than UR44. Because Scarlett are "trendy" may be

I love my 2i2 I'm biased, yes.
Stable, good sound and no problem at all. It is even plug'n play (no drivers) on Mac OSX. I use it on both win and mac in dual boot hackintosh.

I can't talk about UR44, but seems very good, contain nice plugins/DSP and such
The price drop is due to no digital in/out. Drivers are compatible with Mavericks (non official it seems), some ppl said. And windows 8. Seems stable and nice preamps sound.

To me, if you don't need the extra outputs and digital support, UR44 is a nice choice too.

 

For relatively low budget interfaces I'd stick with Presonus or Focusrite for the best sound, until you can afford MOTU and then RME.

 

I'm agreed with Pipotron3000's opinion.
I own an Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 and I'm very happy with it.
Very solid Driver, and this makes all diference to me.
I recommend Scarlett Series. Excellent Cost x Benefit.

 

Like MYCbeats said, i got to choose between Presonus and Focusrite only. I don't even considered any other for budget soundcard.

And i choose Focusrite because of preamps. Presonus preamps on budget are a little under Focusrite. That's why Scarlett are praised. Years ago, Presonus was more trendy because there was not so much alternatives.

 

@Pipotron3000: Thanks for your perspective. I won't be using it for giggin' so 2 ouputs are sufficient to me (2 pair of monitors) but good to point out anyway!
Nice to hear about the preamps. I read the Focusrite has award winning preamps so that's a comforting thought.

I'm curious about the preamps on the Steinberg though. Also, I have Beyerdynamics DT-990 PRo 250 Ohm and am wondering which interface would drive my headphones better.

On the economical side: At this point my local shop has the Steinberg as B-stock for as low as 180 euros while the Focusrite is 310 euros. Aargh.. tough decision!

 

"I read the Focusrite has award winning preamps so that's a comforting thought". A bunch of years ago when I was buying my first interface (which happened to be a Focusrite Saffire and was wonderful) I researched and looked everywhere on the web for the reference to the quote, but the only place that I could actually read this was only on Focusrite's own pages or referenced from them. I have never ever found out what award it was and they actually never let you know. They sound great and work like a charm, but award winning, what award would all their preamps as a group share?

 

You're absolutely right! I'm looking through my 'shiny pink I wanna buy gear sell me a winner-glasses'. Then again pipotron3000's does mention thre preamps are good.

I found the Steinberg headphones out is maximum : 35 mW + 35 mW with 40 Ohm while the Focusrite is 90 mW with 60 Ohm.
So for headphones the Focsurite would win but I don't know if the Steinberg output would be 'sufficient' which is really all I need.

EDIT: Both seem to do fine with 250 Ohm cans

Appreciate all the input, really! Although the sentiment here seems to lean towards Focsurite I've decided to go for the Steinberg. It's half the price due to B-stock availabilty plus I got an additional 10% bonus discount for being a registered customer and a free laptop stand. With so much bonus goodies I collapsed under pressure ;)

Also (although it should be completely irrelevant) I prefer the looks of the Steinberg. The uplevel Focusrites like the 24 or 40 Pro are awesome but the Scarlett looks a bit like a toy. Intuitively I feel Focusrite is more of a solid choice -as it's such a big name with a great rep- and the Steinberg feels more like a little gamble but I'm willing to give it a go.

Tnx!

 

the award that focusrite won was for the red range of products 2 years running
the specific one for mic preamp was the focusrite red 7 in 1996. http://tecfoundation.com/tec/1996.html

on a budget you cant really go wrong with the focusrite interfaces especially with the recent drivers that improve there low latency performance (when i say this this in not in regards to the driver going down to low latency settings its the amount of strain the driver puts on the cpu. so better low latency performance on the same machine at the same latancy means more plugins. )

the stinberg inter face is so so.

when you start moving up the ladder for higher spec interfaces avoid motu if your on pc. there pice cards are ok but there drivers aint the best so skip them and only consider rme or metric halo (when they sort out there windows drivers)

 

Just installed the Steinberg and it went like a breeze.

I installed it on my old PC (Intel Core Duo E8400) and even though I haven't configured my PC for optimal audio performance I already got great latency values with no dropouts or any glitches (testtone and some projects).

In Live 9 (64x) using 96000 sample rate with 128 samples buffersize:

Input Latency: 3.83 ms
Output Latency: 4.83 ms
Overall Latency: 8.67 ms

Using 48000 Samplerate with 64(!) samples buffersize:

Input Latency: 4.08 ms
Output Latency: 5.06 ms
Overall Latency: 9.15 ms

In Sonar I get even lower values. Not sure what to make of this but need to look into it some more.

Samplerate: 96000 / Buffersize: 128
Input latency: 3.1 ms
Output latency: 3.5 ms
Totaal latency: 6.6 ms

Samplerate 192000 / Buffersize: 64
Input latency: 1.0 ms
Output latency: 1.2 ms
Totaal latency: 2.2 ms

Strange thing is when I select 192000 sample rate in Live I cannot choose any lower buffersize than 256 samples while in Sonar I can drop down to 64. Why is this?

Btw. the headphones out is driving my 250 Ohm cans just fine. It's not loud but more than adequate for mixing and to be fair loud enough for my taste anyway..

My monitors are currently being exchanged (Tannoy 502's early batch had a production error) so I only connected my hi-fi system through line-out 1/2 but the power is ENORMOUS!!! I figure about 5 times as loud as my previous AI.

 

Well Spiritos, congrats for your choice.

Just for people who may be in the same decisions, I'll give some more info about Focusrite, as I'm a 18i20 user, and this sound card shares a lot with 18i8.
Good:
The preamps a re very good for the price and the outputs are loud enough.
The mix control routing program is very useful even if you need some time to master it properly.

Bad:
The headphone outputs are too low for professional high impedance headphones. This is from Focusrite support pages:

Even if the explanation is beautiful, I would prefer to have the choice myself, and they forget another option : They could have implemented a more powerful output headphone amplifier. At the expense of a higher price point or little less benefit for them...
I'm working with Beyerdynamics DT880 pro 250 ohms headphones and the max volume is at the limit while I work with a lot of headroom, so many of my tracks do not not pass -6db or less.

The next bad thing is something close to incredible, and I needed a longtime to discover that: The input volume knobs on the front of the unit do not go to 0 (zero) when they are at their minimum
And this is not written anywhere in the manual, so I had many doubts until I wrote to support and this is their answer:

They say "any instruments with particularly high outputs" but even a fender jazz bass come through it.. this is not a particular high volume instrument.

Fortunately this is not a problem for me as I only use this to control the input level of the instruments (ie a guitar), as I control the mutes and so from my DAW but this is completely wrong.
And can have very bad consequences if you use this unit as standalone in live situation, as they suggest you can.

Even though all in all I'm happy with this unit. But I wanted any one in a decision situation to know these points as they are hidden form Focusrite.

 

Thanks for the comparisson!

I will have to test my Steinberg some more with monitoring/direct monitoring and also the weird difference in latency for Sonar vs Live (especially at 192 kHz) but will post eventually

Btw. my guess is the headphone amps on both AI's are similair. Like I wrote, it's more than adequate but definitely not loud - but I like lower volumes for mixing so it isn't a problem for me.

 

Yes Spiritos, I like low volume too I don't want to end up def , but if you want to keep a lot of headroom in a mix, many tracks wont be loud say between -12db and -6db, add to that that I work with 250 ohms semi open headphone and obviously the output is not enough. For some one doing any over-compresed music it's more than enough.

About your latency question, don't believe too much what the different DAWs indicates as latency as some of them only indicate what they do, without taking in account the soundcard, and some indicate the sum of their own latency plus the soundcard's latency. This may be the explanation.

 

Obivously it's whatever works (or not) for you. I like to keep my track volumes at -6db, but -12db is too low I suppose. I haven't tested yet but I also work with 250 Ohm (DT 990 Pro - open) and record mic/guitar. I considered getting a pre-amp nevertheless since both Beyerdynamic cans deserve it!

About the latency could be.. dunno. With my prior AI the readings were spot on but will have to check out some more...

 

I'll do some tests about latency with same DAWs as you and come back to comment later.
Are speaking about Sonar x3?

-12 is overall level, for some high transient sounds it could be the right level to avoid any digital clipping. And in some classical composition there are sound that have to be mixed very low behind. That's why I would have prefer more powerful headphone pre-amp. Beside, I don't like brands to treat their costumers like idiots. When Focusrite states that "A decision was made that the headphone drivers should never, under any circumstances, clip internally" this means that we think you clients are so dum you could work with saturation all the time, so we decided to limit the output. And of course, we don't care if some of you work with big headroom. (I was going to buy the Liquid Saffire 56, and now I'm glad I didn't.) Next sound card will be RME I think.

 

Great idea! Sonar X3 yes.

What I can conclude so far is that X3 is better written than Live 9 (both x64) since all latency values are +/- 25% lower in Sonar than in Live.
I'm curious about your readings on 192kHz/64 in Sonar -since for me this gives me stellar results which I can't explain as I see no gradual ratio-development when lowering the settings and as mentioned, in Live I can't drop lower than 256 buffersize with 192kHz.

As for Focusrite marketing: I'm sure benefits/revenues are equally important to companies as customer-happiness

 

Ohh wait... My Focusrite "only" goes to 96Khz so I cant do the test

If you want I could do tests at 96Khz

 

Ah.. one more point for the Steinberg ;)

I'm still curious about a comparisson of latency values between Sonar and Live and in general the performance so if you will.. please do

 

I've borrowed an SPL Crimson for a few days and this thing is incredible, it sounds like you are plugged into an analogue mixing console! It's very stable at 32 samples and is great for tracking. The preamps and instrument inputs are silent even at high gain and they sound fantastic. If you see one going for under 450 EUR jump on it! My mate paid 430 EUR for his new.

 

Never heard of that brand but good to know! Yet in my OP I mentioned I need at least 3 mic inputs -which the Crimson has not.