I know this question has been asked many times before but at the moment I am desperately short of a top quality piano library.

I will be using it extensively on a recording I am putting together at the moment and want it to be a real top quality one.

I am looking to spend under £500 if possible.

I haven't got room for a real piano and can't play that well lol!!

I was wondering what people consider to be the best piano library available within that rough price bracket and under.

It can be for Kontakt or a VST for DAW platform doesn't really matter.

I was thinking of East/West pianos or Vienna Imperial but have not used them and wondered what other people thought if they have experience and whether they worth the money and what other options/more recent libraries are available.

Also I'm not overly keen IloK2 but if needs be then so be it

Thanks

 

Matt my friend, have you checked this thread?

You'll probly get a bunch of different answers cause there's a lot of piano samples out there, and in the end it comes down to personal preference and what type of music you mainly will be producing.
Personally, if I was about to spend that kinda money today, I would go for sth from the Imperfect Samples or Synthogy Ivory products.

 

You can't go wrong with the Pianoteq stuff, which provides one of the newest version of their top notch pianos available. (the 5 PRO version is around 400 euros)

i haven't tried the Synthogy stuff, but they're kinda old and outdated.

Personally if i'd have the money to spare, Pianoteq 5 would be my instant choice.


Check the demos this guy plays along the video. (check also the users comments)

 

They create those pianos by phisical modelling (i don't know what that means, but instead of playing samples, it actually creates the sound in real time, i still don't know how they do it, but these are some notes about their technology(i skipped the tech aspects and i went straight into the difference between sample-based and pianoteq) and btw V5 is far superior to V3:

Why a sampled piano is insufficient

The very best sampled pianos of today are the result of many hours of careful recordings associated with complex solutions designed to provide a valuable piano sound. We respect the work of these high class competitors who manage to develop sampled based pianos of this quality. However, as is well-known, sampling technology itself has inherent disadvantages.

To give you an understanding of the reasons why we chose to develop Pianoteq we find it necessary to describe the shortcomings of using samples to create a digital piano:

The sampled piano contains static recordings of each note, how it sounded during a particular moment in time. It does not take into account the influence of other strings vibrating, cabinet resonance, pedal interaction and hammer position.
The sampled piano cannot alter the existing piano samples when it comes to parameters such as hammer hardness, unison tuning, cabinet size, overtones spectrum etc.
The sampled piano has several technical limitations such as audible quantization noise and uneven variation of the timbre (from ppp to fff).

Despite many recent attempts to enhance the sampled piano sound by adding convolution reverb and other post processing effects, the technology as such has too many limitations when it comes to achieving a truly vivid and convincing piano sound.
What makes Pianoteq unique

Pianoteq offers many unique qualities and features that make it superior to other virtual pianos:

Vivid: The piano creates the sound in real time while you are playing and takes into account all the complex factors that makes the piano a truly vivid instrument, such as the interaction between strings, the use of pedals, the cabinet resonance and the position of the hammers.
It will feel like you have a real piano in front of you... as if you could just lean over and touch the strings!
Versatile: Pianoteq introduces new possibilities to adjust the piano sound just the way you like it! Things that until now were dedicated for piano tuners are now possible directly from the interface. Within seconds you can adjust the sound to a particular type of music or playing style. The many choices can be saved as a customized setting which you can share with other Pianoteq users.
Expressive: All the detailed variations of the timbre are there, from the weakest pianissimo to the strongest fortissimo! What you express on your keyboard will also be what you actually hear. The sound of even the weakest pianissimo is absolutely pure without any audible quantization noise.
Convenient: Thanks to its rather modest system requirements, Pianoteq is suitable to run on a modern laptop, convenient for the travelling musician. The small size (40 MB) and the fast interface means no loading time. Just a few mouse movements to start playing.


It says it has only 40mb , but if you ask a pianist to play it and send the recording to some of your friends even from conservative college, they would swear they just heard a real piano and not a virtual one.
It's pretty amazing and it occupies so less, because as you could see above, it doesn't use recorded samples as other sample-based piano libraries.

Also that video demo is not well recorded. Check the audio demos on the official website.

 

Yeah Evorax that's an interesting option for sure. Never tested pianoteq myself but I guess I really should. So much stuff, so little time...

The thing for me personally is that I don't believe that there is one piano library that suits really well for everything. On my track for AS album for instance I ended up using 3 different pianos for the various segments.
That's why I would spend the major part of such a budget on a piano that have a rich and natural sound with great dynamic range.
Then I would complement with another, sth a bit more simple but with more sting and punch and rough feeling.
I def think you're right not to rush in, and try to find out and test as much as you can before parting with your hard earned cash.

Also remember that there are a lot of free pianos out now that are pretty good that can be used when you need sth a bit different or even to blend with some pro lib's sometimes, so you'll never be totally stuck with just one option.

 

Pianoteq is more versatile than an experienced prostitute.
"Pianoteq introduces new methods to adjust the piano sound to just the way you like it! Changes that until now could only be made by piano tuners are now possible directly from the interface. Within seconds you can adjust the sound to a particular type of music or playing style. The many choices can be saved as a customized setting which you can share with other Pianoteq users. "

You can shape the sound however you want because it doesn't depends on samples. It also has expansions for other acoustic and historical pianos. The 400 euros Pro Version comes with two pianos which are very tweakable (the interface has alot of parameters and controls).

I really don't consider this piano being overpriced, because if we take in consideration how less resources requires and how easily and fast you can load it in your sessions(which even live is an advantage), that could deserve the price on its own

If Matt is interested in more quantity than quality, then he can buy more pianos libraries in his 500pounds range.

If he's interested in quality more than quantity (and still wants some versatility) then he can buy just this thing and forget everything else.(at least he can try the demo if it's available in any sort of way so he gets a better idea about it if it will really suit his needs or not).

 

Pianoteq is in the same ballpark with Pianissimo only when it comes about size

Believe me, they don't drop a 400Euros price tag for an amateurish virtual piano.
Pianissimo is more like a reserve alternative if you don't have anything else. It sounds acceptable, but sound and tweakability wise, Pianoteq fully deserves its price tag. IMO Pianoteq is the only one who made the biggest leap in the virtual piano technology.
And about "synthesized sound", check the official audio demos on the official website.
Also that guy who played the demos on that video, he uses Pianteq live and i'm sure he wouldn't play something that it would sound worse than a Motif or Roland's digital pianos.

The Ivory II American Concert D is $200 and it requires around 50gb of hard drive space. Now why would ask for a lower price against Pianoteq if they're really that top notch.
Also the Imperfect Samples pianos are super great sounding to me and they also costs far less than Pianoteq.

I don't say they're bad. They're high-end sample-based pianos, but their samples don't influence themselves while you play, by other strings vibrating and etc. and the HD space requirement (and maybe loading time) is a big disadvantage against Pianoteq.
The difference isn't huge, but if you're searching for quality and not quantity, Pianoteq insanely defies the ratio between hard drive space and sound quality.


I told you, i really have no idea how these guys achieved the "Pianoteq" but if i'd be in your shoes, i'd order it instantly.

 

Look, give me like 5 different options including Pianoteq and i'll show the official sites/demos to my female friend piano girl (which is the best piano player in her conservative collage). She played a wide range of real pianos including Bosendorfer Imperial as shown in the image below:


(She would kill me if she finds out that i leaked her pictures even if it's about a show so i had to cover her face, i know, she's pretty difficult, believe me)


She can easly distinct if a virtual piano sounds more authentic or more synthy. Two years ago when "The Giant" came out, i shown her the first video review and she easily spoted in the beginning or in the end(i don't remember exactly) of that review that it sounded kinda synthy unrealistically.

 

I'm going to show her your options as soon as i get in touch with her.

Everything now resumes on her opinion. It can be any of the options you chosen, i don't bet that is going to be Pianoteq (that's a personal/subjective favourite) but i'm pretty curious too to see what she thinks about every of those.

All the best!

 

Pianoteq can also be made to sound very different than a normal piano... Could be way synthy to convincing to xylophone-like. They also have a lot of other algos for different instruments. See here:
https://pianoteq.com/free_stuff

EW Play has improved quite a bit but it's still very limited in terms of parameter adjustment. It's more stable but still buggy. (Give it a try somewhere if you can...)

There's also this:
http://www.productiongrand.com/ / http://www.productionvoices.com/

But I don't really like the sound... Go figure.

You can try the Ivory Pianos here:
http://www.try-sound.com/

-

http://www.try-sound.com/detail.asp/ivory_ii_american_concert_d/en
http://www.try-sound.com/detail.asp/ivory_ii_grand_pianos/en
http://www.try-sound.com/detail.asp/ivory_ii_italian_grand/en
http://www.try-sound.com/detail.asp/ivory_ii_upright_pianos/en

Just make an account and book a session. It's not perfect but better than nothing.

I'd probably get Pianoteq and EW Spaces. (But if you want to avoid iLok/Play altogether, forget EW - And it also exceeds your money limit...) :dancing:

The Giant is also cool sounding, at least for more cinematic stuff. Maybe it could be a complimentary lib. (I quite like its low end too, but also on the whole)

 

http://soundcloud.com/acousticsamples/kawai-bryan-demo-2-mp3
http://soundcloud.com/acousticsamples/kawaiexdemo_pl_grandillusion-mp3

beats everything...IMO http://www.acousticsamples.net/kawai-ex-pro it has a very lovely realistic feeling when u play it for sure...there is a bundle too http://www.acousticsamples.net/bundles/as-piano-collection anyway I'm simply love it

 

let's be aware matt, if you need a real great amazing sounding piano with a computer based environment, so it will be played and rec @ 96000 , with SSD and pretty high Ram reserve to get something descent. *yes*

cheers

 

I highly recommend Galaxy Vintage D and Fazioli Ebony Concert Grand. Especially with Vintage D, you can all kinds of vibes and textures, be it the cllasical, emotional timbre, or some eerie/synth-ish soundscapes.

 

Almost all these libraries are good but i didn't hear a sound like that from any piano library

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKR3G_05JrY&list=LLx3_BM6J54L2wteTbX9UVxg&index=78

This is real piano as you see, not a sampled piano on real keyboards or virtual piano.

But i don't think it is impossible to model that sort of piano because it is video converted to digital, i can trigger that sound from the keyboard.

Am i wrong, why not modelling a piano like that?

Don't get me wrong, there are very good libraries and VST plug-ins and they sound awesome.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF9xh5YHW8w



This is very good and not different sounding from the real keyboard's pianos but the sound is different from that video all the same.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKR3G_05JrY&list=UU4D-bmYQXrqlm8fUNGPyo-w

 

It's because most of the libraries are recorded in high quality, with multiple mics in different positions etc.
But your posted video has a rather poor sonic quality. You don't see a mic in the picture, so most likely there's just a single room one somewhere.

It's much easier to make a hq recording sound like this than the other way round. Just apply a highpass and lowpass filter, boost some midrange, narrow the image, add some noise and reverb...

Another thing is, it's a really small piano ("Baby Grand" - could be the size of a Steinway S) with less power especially in the lower sections, so maybe you might want to compare an appropriate library (maybe even one of an upright piano).

Br,
Olaf

 

Don't like it at all. They sampled a wonderful Bosendorfer (the sound would hav been awesome) in their silent stage but they focused on the most useless details and they forgot some crucial ones. To get 127 velocities per 88 keys they stretched the samples (otherwise the compromise was 50 velocities but no stretched samples) and finally they sampled pedal up and down but there is no halfpedal at all or something similar. Last time I checked they said on the forums they had no intentions whatsoever of updating and adding this feature! Shame on them! *no*
A piano without a good damper pedal programming is like a woman without boobs. -.-"

Huge library, maybe a bit old! I think it is very similar in sound with The Grand 3, huge pianos recorded in some scoring stage or very large studios. I think they really give their best in a context but they lack details in solos so I would never expose them unless you wash them in a solo line with pedal always down. This also another example where the advanced pedalling (half pedal) feature is missing. So it's big no. *no*

Never tried one of those (a lifetime is not enough to check any kind of piano vst) but I really loved the demos of the Italian Grand and the last Steinway they recorded. The sound is convincing and looking at the engine it shows pretty much the basics needed in a piano to sound convincing but I don't grant a free pass until I play it. *yes*


As a pianist my first suggestion is Pianoteq 5 (standard version or pro) [I'm still working on believing I just said what I said, yes!]. Main reasons for it:

• If you choose the 2 pianos instrument pack you get a D4 modeled after a Steinway Hamburg and the K2 (smaller piano not based on a real counterpart but very versatile) [I would suggest you later buy also the Rhodes, the Bluthner, the YC5 and the M-Vibraphone ------> This is the wish list of the jazzist in me, don't listen!];
• Mic modeling is top notch and you can choose a closer perspective, under the lid, a player perspective with sharp attacks or a more wider one using omni room mics (it requires a little bit of knowledge in recording a piano but once you get the basics you'll love it, granted!);
• You can load your own IRs and this is crucial because I think some reverbs inside the software are really dull and really doesn't help to shape the beautiful tone the software can achieve using modeling [Rhodes is one example, try to use a good amp and spring reverb and it will arise from the death);
• Last but not least expression because you won't find any piano library that can easily compare on this one (find me one that allows you to shape the unisons or the hammer hardness and i'll give you a kiss!).

 

Heres my solution:
1 buy a keyboard controller like real piano.
2 record midi by yourself.
3 send your midi to someone who have best quality piano library.

In my experience there's no one could catch up with real acoustic piano(however e piano can do better emulation)!

 

Thanks for the information, so it is possible to get a sound like in the second video by adding some effects.

 

Reverb effect is very important for the piano and piano (VST of course :D) sounds more realistic with reverb. I recommend TruePianos, 8Dio and Alicia's Keys too.