I'm seriously considering buying the Roland Aira System-1 keyboard synthesizer. I know it's not analog but I've never owned a hardware synth before. So, coming from an 'in the box' background would this synth be worth getting? The price is at teh limit of what I want to spend. Also, it has that plug-out feature allowing you to load Roland plugins directly into it for stand alone play. Currently, my wallet is screaming blue murder at me for the amount of capital I'm about to outlay for all sorts of gear so I really want to be sure about getting this synth. And, if any would not recommend this midi/synth keyboard what would be a great alternative?

Thanks for the advice in advance.

 

Thanks so much for the suggestions. It's certainly helped me narrow down what I am after. Nothing above a 25 key. So the 25 key synths you mentioned look awesome!

 

I have 4 Roland units, and each day I use less.
Jd990 is and exception and I really like my old jx-8p.
I study Aira, but i think is not a go because the free plugin (there will be more one like SH) that comes with the machine seams to sound exactly like the machine, and there are videos comparing the sources.
Roland states the this is a great controller (and most of the price is for that), but I think is more a dj style.
There are other that you must compare like David Smiths Tetra and Evolver.
Talking about controller:
Its good a good keyboard, expression pedal, breath controller and ribbon controller...the The Rolands have more lights, so what? I care about the sound

 

You haven't written a single word about what you want in a synth, how you're gonna use it and what kind of sounds you're after, so

 

I tried it at a convention for a while, here's my 2 cents :

So, coming from an 'in the box' background would this synth be worth getting?
Nope, it's all numeric, your VST will sound pretty much the same

The price is at teh limit of what I want to spend.
If you want some hardware, you have much better virtual analog alternative in the 2nd hand market : novation *novas, access, nord, ... (~400€) they will give you some sounds you won't find in Massive or Sylenth1

Also, it has that plug-out feature allowing you to load Roland plugins directly into it for stand alone play.
You won't load any plugin in this, only some preset ... build preset on a vst like interface and write it on the module, and you can leave your computer at home.
btw , the keyboard is insanely small and weak on this synth, so it might not be a very good stand-alone stage solution on its own.

I was very disappointed in this synth,
- Arturia's jupiter sounds more "organic"
- It's weak and plastic-ish (on the hardware side)

(on the other side of Aira : the TR8 is awesome , it sounds solid, it's much better built, the sequencer is perfect, my gf can use it)

 

Oh, right. I'll be using it for mostly bass, deep growling bass sounds and 'as 80's as I can get it' lead elements. All aiming at the deep tech house vibe

Thanks for the great input. I'm really glad you played around with it and have some real world feedback. You can never believe the hype.


The Korg or Novation are sounding more and more appealing by the looks of things. With regards to the second hand market I have no idea what it looks like in my country but will check it out for sure. Thanks a million for all the advice so far!

 

The Arturia - MiniBrute looks good for 'growling' bass. Don't know about leads though.

What abour thr Novation - UltraNova?

 

what ever you do DONT buy a tetr4, i had it (for 2 years and still not a decent os or editor because of the faulty os) and you're better of with a mopho or minibrute, i own a microbrute, mopho, mininova, microkorg xl, blofeld and a roland sh201, the last one is mentioned last for a reason, despite it being a solid synth it does have a plastic feeling to it (tho i have to admit the thing is strong, it dropped twice from a keyboard stand and it's still working(ultimate so yeah it was a good stand but it's too big for it and gets out of balance and before you know it it's on the ground)) roland just has a typical sound that you have to like. i could recommend the first 4 synths without a doubt, the microkorg does have one advantage and that is 2 sounds at the same time which the others dont have but as many people will claim having a diversity in sound (brands) is a good thing.

just looked it up and no i wouldnt throw my money on this one, they make a nice story for it but nope it sounds empty

 

OK, I know it's not a keyboard and a somewhat totally different beast, but when I need deep growling bass and housey deep tech sounds and fx, I would without hesitating steer towards my Korg Electribe MX (EMX1).
I have all kinds of hardware and software synths, pure analog, virtual analog, FM, digital and wavetable stuff, but for the styles you're after, IMHO even by today's standards nothing has to offer more in one box than the EMX.

I can really, really recommend to get your hands on one before you purchase anything. I have been through so many different synths and it took me a long time to even think of trying such a "toy", but heck, what a fun and fantastic sounding machine!

Its secret is the well-done mix of different synthesis methods with access to few but most relevant parameters, very flexible modulation, built-in samples and fantastically quick workflow.
And it does proper MIDI sync so no probs integrating it with your DAW of choice.

What I like too is that when I have a fresh idea, I can power it up and quickly hack my ideas in, nothing else required.

 

the mini brute is grate think of it as a illegitimate roland sh-101 but if you need to recall presets say your playing live and switching between songs be ready for furiously changing the settings.

moog do lovely bass main reason for me buying a sub 37 which i think of as a one trick pony but it dose it soo well. (it will do good leads too )
the Minitaur is brilliant for its price and the sub borrowed from some of its innards
BUT the Minitaur uses volt to frequency rather than volt per octave so it cant do the full range of a keyboard only upto c-4.

bass station 2 is really nice dose not have that moog magic for a certain kind of bass but dose very cool things.
you can do detuned waves and oscillator hard sync which is very useful for your 80's leads.(i really enjoy this synth dont use the tb303 syle fiter mutch as i dont really have call for 303 style bass in dnb tunes)
its based of the guts of the EDP Wasp synthesizer buy the engineer him self how also worked on the Oxford Synthesiser Company OSCar.

all 3 are great

the korg ms 20 mini id avoid as its really noisey more noisy than a original that i got to use some years back.


but are you wanting a hardware for the sake of having hardware or you after a analogue synth in particular(if not your probably better off with just getting a better controller for the plug-in's you got).
dose it have to have a keyboard as the Minitaur don't and you could consider dave smith instruments mopho, or even the Waldorf pulse 2.
do you need polyphony or is mono just fine.

these things like why you want one do play heavy in your decisions of what to get and what people will point you to.

also finally do you have a decent audio interface for recording this synth with and try to put some money aside for a couple of cheap stomp box fx like chorus delay distortion ect.. as they do make a difference

 

The Audio interface I'm getting is the NI Komplete Audio 6 and I am leaning towards a keyboard synth as I don't have a proper midi keyboard yet, only a USB/midi keyboard, so synths such as the Minitaur and Mopho are out for the moment, unless I can get my current midi keyboard to somehow send midi through my Audio Interface? I don't know, looks unlikely. Will definitely look at expanding to these great looking synths in the future though.

As for the reason I want a synthesizer is for it's analog sound (or what I was hoping was great virtual analog sound via Roland's ACB technology). I want more presence, more oomf in my sound. I want more professionalism so to speak. These days it's very easy to get great plug-ins so more and more people have them, use them and, by proxy, sound kind of the same if you know what I mean. I want to try rise above the sea of sameness. We can all agree, most pro's have analog somewhere in there gear they love using, be it a synth, compressor, FX, their own sampling, whatever. So I'm kind of reaching towards that idea one piece of hardware at a time.

 

right from what you said ill awnser aload of stuff

as soon as you go out of the box you autio interface becomes the central hub for your out board gear and even though the NI Komplete audio 6 interface is good for the money its a prosumer product.
the slight nuances that you get from analog synths that are easily lost when in a mix are really not getting the best conversion to digital with that interface.
sorry but thats the way it is.
as a audio engineer you need to look at what is the weakest link in your audio chain and that will be it, along with what studio monitors you have and the acoustic treatment of your room.

if you stay in the box now then you can concentrate on them first.

and when i say acoustic treatment i dont mean covering your room with auralex foam.(as i know a lad that covered his entire room in the suff and wonderd why his room was getting so hot)
start with putting bass traps in corners and absorption panels at the first reflection points then measure the frequency response from you listening position, ect..

mopho you whould have to use the midi out from the NI audio interface and then the usb midi controller you have, routed through your daw out of the NI audio interfaces midi out into the mopho midi in.
the minitaur and waldorf pulse 2 have usb midi so it plug in the usb and it shows as a midi io in your daw again route the usb controller to them in your daw.
set up a audio track with the synth as the input and then monitor it to hear the synth play arm and record when you want the audio.

this analogue sound that you speak of yes its nice but once again most times in a mix people that are listening to your music just dont know the difference whether you used a analog synth or a plugin and if they do there not listening to the MUSIC.
as for the sameness its about processing as by nature analog is not precise.
in your synth patches dont sync the lfos get them close instead and leave them free running use lots of subtle modulations which most soft synths will give you loads more of that a analouge counter part unless its a emulation of a synth.
process process process that is a key thing too.
i dont know what daw you use but for example with every thing that logic comes with if you cant make a good tune then you need to reassess what your doing.
as throwing money at it is not the answer.

most professionals do lots of little thing that amount up over the signal chain. using just your basic tool set of eq, distortion/saturation, modulation fx, ect..

(so make preset chain's in your daw that you can try out on sounds your making with synths)

and if you really want you may be better of going getto lofi and just getting some cheap stomp boxes to run stuff through you could even splash out and get moogerfooger boxes. as they will come in useful when you do finally up the anty and get a hardware synth (hopefully analog).

also id stay away from va's as they really don't offer much more than plugins apart from on some a dedicated hardware interface which for some helps work flow.

yer most pros do have hardware trinkets from back in the day when computers didnt do what they can today. you got to realise the hole thing of vsti's only happened about 18 years ago that's when cubase turned into cubase vst with fx and synths.
but i also know lots of pros that dont have hardware as they got rid of it when it became viable to work in the box.
one important mentality you can take from them is that when people used hardware you whould buy it and spend ages with just that piece of gear and really learn how to use it.
that dont really happen these days with a lot of younger producers as there is the wealth of professional plug-ins about, and most consume them and flick through them like nothing, wanting presets.

i remember if anyone you knew got a new synth every one would be round sampling it lol.
(this is another thing to do when you made a patch you like put processing chain's on and bounce out audio to load into sampler even do long versions with automation on where you then find happy accidents that you then manipulate as audio or throwing the sampler and rinse and repeat)

this is very sensible and i whole heartedly recommend that approach thing is its all to easy to save and save then you go mad and think you have to get loads of things as you have been saving for a long time.
and usually the really important things that you really need are the most boring lol
for example i only recently bought a analogue synth after doing stuff with music for over 20 years and that was really down to one thing that the synth dose as most of what it dose can be done on any plugin and that was due to some filter tricks that it can do and the fact that since i became disabled and lost a good proportion of use in my hand that pushing a mouse around is annoying.
where as a good synth with loads of controls on it is fun again.

hopefully I haven't come across condensing and have given you some food for thought to help along your way to audio nirvana.

 

Thanks for the massive reply. I really appreciate your advice. As with everyone who has unloaded their sage advice and personal experience, I'm trying best to assimilate and take the best of it but you've really given me deep fried food with 20 sides for thought...

So, any recommendations for an alternative? (sad panda am I as I love NI gear) I am getting the Maschine Studio as well so just wanted it all NI gleamy and shiny. But honestly... I WILL NOT sacrifice on audio quality for brand loyalty. If I had more money I would jump straight to the RME Babyface as I've only heard good things about it but it's more than 3 times the price of the KA6!!

Thank you for this. In hindsight I can say 'doh!' coz it's so simple. That'll 'learn' me as we say where I'm from

nom nom nom... more food for thought

No worries their. I manage to make mad sounds. It's more a creative issue in the end

Since you've cleared up the midi routing issue I am definitely looking at the Mopho/Mintaur/Waldorf synths, especially that they are smaller (due to me buying them overseas coz no dealer this side sells any anywhere EVER... for the love of God!!)

I'm definitely guilty of preset hopping (but do fiddle and change from that point on) but mainly coz I can't quite wrap my head around some of these plugin synths (I'm still a baby producer TBH)

Not at all. I'm new at all this. Only been seriously producing for just under a year now and know so little so that's why I'm here asking for peoples opinions.

 

DeepStar what daw do you use at the moment? i ask this so i have an idear of your tool set. cause then id recomend a subtractive synth that lays it all out infront of you to concentrate on to get with the fundamentals of synthesis.

then is just a matter of the other two which are additive but id leave that alone really and fm/pd which is can be quite evil. and most that use the fm soft synths tend to use them more like a subtractive just adding the operators then filtering.

as for the audio interface its always a tough one as its very personal to what will suit each person if your dropping in at a entry level and not had a popper audio interface before then id think what monitor speakers have you got? or getting? what aspirations you have/how far your planning to take your music.
are you planning to record any of/all of these: vocals, guitars synths.
are you wanting just an entry point to start with then change later as you expand?

the RME babyface is a lovely interface with good low latency performance drivers on windows. there converters are grate too.
they have a close relationship with alva that make there cables and they make this http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan13/articles/alva-nanoface.htm
that is in the same budget as the ni audio 6. which may be of interest but iv never used it so can comment.

i know form my sources that in that budget range the NI audio 6 and Focusrite scarlet range are good cards for the money and are a good entry point.
so if that is your budget there decent.

 

​

Site

I just couldn`t resist...

 

I'm currently working in FL Studio but TBH, it's irrelevant. I have every major synth out there and seldom use the in-DAW (in... door... get it? ok, one liners are not my strong suite) and I simply love using Sylnth1 and Trillian. I haven't even attempted FM8 or any other FM synth, As you say, evil and complex.

I had a look at that Alva Nanoface and it really doesn't look that great at all for the price range it's in. As an audiophile at heart, I'd love only the best but reality dictates that I stay entry level and I am pretty happy with the reviews and feedback around the interwebs for KA6. As Audiopig highlighted above, it may not have the best AD/DA conversion for analog synths but I think I'm happy with that.

I'm aspiring to be a 'recording artist' for lack of a better term. I'd love to get onto a record label, bang out tunes regularly, get a bit of recognition and get pirated the hell out of. I'm not sure how possible that really is because I'm concentrating on getting my tunes top class and will chase publication at a later stage when I feel my tunage is at an acceptable par. I have a fantastic ear for club bangers and so far my own tunes are about on par with this: .


So, after much mental mastication, I may not actually get a new synth in the end. You see I'm pressed for getting gear at a good bargain. I'm holidaying in New York and here in South Africa gear is anywhere between 150% - 200% more expensive due to shipping, handling, import duties and mark ups. So I'm using it as an opportunity to get gear at great prices and hope to God customs doesn't stop me on the way in.

 

Totally agree.
Dig into Reaktor... for unique analog style sounds. It`s my solution at least untill I can afford a Virus Ti Polar, lol.
I got a M-Audio Axiom 25 and use only soft synths.
Seriously: If you want a 25 keys quality hardware synth making sounds like no other, you`ll need more money.

If you just want a synth no matter what...maybe whithout the keys...
A real analog & monophonic synth in your price range would be Dark Energy II by Doepfer.

Code:

http://www.doepfer.de/Dark_Energy_II_e.htm

A presentation by a very nice lady...

Code:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DERwn7251nA

My favourite store is big and customer friendly, means best possible pricing & satisfaction warranty (exchange the first 14 days).
However, would be nice if you let us know about your decision.

 

i'm working from FL studio as well, used it since fruity loops 3 and the workflow of it just appeals to me and got used to it a it to much (maybe). end mixing i do in logic (yeah fl studio on bootcamp, render vst's and make a midi-file. works like a charm)

as a controller for the mopho i use my microbrute, just turn the volume down when playing other vst's/modules. it's really not a problem if you have a controller. interface is NI Audio 10, got them all routed through it and using am ESI M4u ext for hooking them all up to midi and make sure latency is not a problem. it is however completely filled by now, think i have 1 channel left as the microbrute is mono in output (unless i missed the part in manual where it say to plug in a stereo jack plug, but who reads manuals nowadays anyway)

i do have to add one thing to this topic which i havent seen mentioned before and that is the usage of an ipad, i have had amazing results making music on ipad2+ ipad4. using cubasis as a base (oh the pun) and auria for mixing/looping samples and arranging. the stuff on there is amazing and can recommend many synths such as nave, z3ta+ and others (even free ones can be amazing) tho i have to admit it took me about 3-400 euro's getting all the stuff i needed to make proper mixes, advantage of auria is the massive list of plug ins that are pro-quality, think of fabfilter and PSP audio. offcourse you have to buy them but it's worth the money, plenty of plug ins i use in logic are also in there

check out this song made purely on the ipad https://soundcloud.com/statik-sky/buzzed-pre-version

 

do not know why not LUSh 101 (really suberb)
Well, something I understand, the love for originals and the hate of emulations...
The real mistake is expecting the emulations to be like the originals.
But the true is that they must reated like different beasts. i have in my studio originals and emulations so I learn where use them in where they suits better.
Usually we need a real good sound in the front lines...here theres a dsicution about the better piano, but do you need a monster piano in every song?
A real good preamp make a vst sound really ANALOG, so its more important, for me at least.
Analog is good but sometimes we have a deadline, so programing without an editor is time comsuming, when you have an editor it only works for win, osx or ios... DAMMM
I do not know how many kilometers of cables I have in my studio, sometimes i really hate expending time fixing things, o yeh...at least they are analog right?
@static
2-400 euros for Proper mixes?
Its a money where the 0s never end

 

true that, the money i spend on my studio throughout the years will never be made back unless i hit a No1 hit single which i'm not expecting XD but that ipad is mean thing when it comes to making music, have a load of plugins for making the sounds i want and next release will be partially made on the ipads, i am loving them combined with the istudio202 from behringer which is actually quite amazing (since when are these guys actually producing quality gear instead of b-gear)

cables are a big problem yeah, or rather long problem, cables too long or too short but no in between it seems, it's mess over here and almost no way to do it logical, needs moar cables(at the right length, no i cant solder XD)!!!