Phase reverse for acapella

Discussion in 'Working with Sound' started by Ztriumph, Jun 6, 2014.

  1. Ztriumph

    Ztriumph Newbie

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    Hey guys, 've seen videos on how to, but im still not getting it..can anyone help provide me some insight?

    As always, much appreciatedd & Thank You
     
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  3. jhagen

    jhagen Platinum Record

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    it is very easy, just reverse the track, then you can change the phase and add EQ to 2000hz, then reverse back and change sample rate. put original track on the other track and load into battery or kontakt channel inverter, use filter LP to boost presence and finally you reverse both track. voice track is almost ready and acapella.
     
  4. Kwissbeats

    Kwissbeats Audiosexual

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    and that's easy? :rofl:
     
  5. DAW

    DAW Kapellmeister

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    No, certainly not. And the 'explanation' written above your post cannot work.

    See below (but I think some audio aficionados could/will certainly explain why much better and more 'zen-style' as I'm capable of at this very moment, reading the second post of this thread ; sorry, Friends :sad: ).
     
  6. DAW

    DAW Kapellmeister

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    So, we have several possiblities, jhagen:

    and/or

    - you're totally stupid;

    - you're 5 years old;

    - you know nothing about audio;

    - your native language is not English.

    Because this =>

    doesn't mean anything and don't/cannot work. And you never tried it, it's obvious.

    I have no problem with any of the above mentionned possiblities, but with the fact that you waste people's time, and, in this particular case, that Ztriumph will eventually give a try to your 'explanation' and be desperate that 'it' won't work for him.
    It's scandalous. This site is called 'audiosex pro', respect it or go back to your kindergarden.

    It took 2 (two) hours to write this in my poor English, this just to show how essential correcting all your misinformation is here. Music is a healing. Don't destroy it.

    __________________________________________________​

    Details :

    What does this mean? What do you mean by 'reverse the track' ? Because as I read it, 'reverse the track' could mean time reverse or phase reverse.
    In this second case, we have a problem, as then 'reverse the track' and 'change the phase' are exactly the same thing.

    Why 2 kHz? How much gain? Bandwidth? Female or male singer(s)?
    What about other instruments/frequencies present in that bandwidth?
    What about all phase distorsions you create?
    (etc etc etc, tons)

    Now you want to change the sample rate? Why, please?

    Since when does a LP filter boost presence? [ I deleted the : " have you published a paper at the AES or in JASA about this revolution, 'cause I didn't read about it "; of course that was too much of a show off.] [ Now it is anyway. ]

    Certainly not. What you'll get is the common/mid/center channel (those are synonyms), with the (around) 2 kHz frequencies boosted and a cut of all high frequencies thanks to your LP. With nice basses, solos, OH, reverbs etc. Simply put: everything present in that (more or less large) center. That's it.
    Nope, sorry, forgive me: you'll also have the voices present in this center channel, drowned in your residual 'mix', with phases and distorsions everywhere.
    Which is far from an 'acapella', which is what Ztriumph asked for.

    [ By the way, just to mention, all the steps you wrote about can be done in 5 clicks in Samplitude Pro X, and I suppose in most others DAWs, in a much more easy and straightforward way. ]

    __________________________________________________​

    Don't worry, Ztriumph, it's not your fault at all, as it does not work.

    As written above what you'll get is the common/mid/center channel, with 'some' frequencies boosted, and 'some' others cut.
    See it (hear it :grooves: ) like this: put your headphones on and what will remain from this idea is all the music mixed in the center of the stereo field.
    It would work if, in this exact center, we'd have only the main vocal. But this is rarely the case. Eventually, if there is only also a bass in that center, we could try to remove some of it with an intelligent dynamic EQ.
    I suppose you'll understand that this would work better in the case of a female singer, who's voice would sit 'much' higher in the spectrum than the bass. But again this can only work partially.
    You won't get a pure voice as the one you're asking for, similar to those we get as master stems.

    Once tracks are mixed, you cannot un-mix them. To this present day, June 7 2014, this is impossible. The human ear/brain can do this, as it can recognize your friend's voice in a crowd, but it's an incredibly powerful and advanced engine.

    Once mixed, it's like cooking: you can't 'un-cook' it and get all the ingredients of your cake back separately (eggs, butter, milk etc).

    [ DJ's (for example) get their acapellas from the vocal mix stems. Those can be as clean/pure as the mix engineer wants them to get out, as/but of course he has access to the individual tracks/busses.]

    Finally:

    Thanks to the genius of Peter Neubäcker, with Celemony Melodyne (Editor) it is possible to 'un-mix' to a certain extend the instruments/vocals present in a stereo render. But that won't be done in some clicks and in 5 minutes. It's not easy at all, and the 'purety' of the resulting vocal track obviously will depend on how detailed the original mix was done and the instruments are separated.

    Here it's how it's done - this looks as what you're looking for -:

    Tutorial: Demixing and remixing a vocal phrase

    You can also check those links, if you've never used this software:

    Tutorial: Fine-tuning the vocals

    And:

    Tutorial: Doubling vocals

    Tutorial: Creating an a capella song

    I hope this helps you and clears a bit the scenario *yes* .

    Please, someone :mates: would you go on, please? Thank you in advance :bow: .

    [Sorry for this.
    OK, go on, kill me. Want
    me to leave this site?]
     
  7. eksproducer

    eksproducer Member

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    Thank you i learned from that aswell, i kinda feel bad for the banana avatar guy though lol
     
  8. jhagen

    jhagen Platinum Record

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    :rofl:

    if somebody needs I can upload a tutorial of mine to extract each separate tracks by the original and midi parts too...it is very easy tutorial.

    I also have one sample of dr.dre snare (190GB high resolution) that can make your tracks be the next hit :)

    Probably the first :bleh:
     
  9. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    Jhagen, you are not funny, even though you try to be.

    Phase inversion is simple knowledge. Extracting the vocals only is a completely different matter. Maybe you can get lucky with phase-inversing tracks with an instrumental (aka sing-back version) of the track, but if you are working with mp3s you are probably out for some ugly mp3 compression.
    Ask for/buy/get the original stems instead, if possible.
     
  10. SAiNT

    SAiNT Creator Staff Member phonometrograph

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    we all have right to make mistakes, otherwise we wouldn't learn anything.

    so quit calling my members stupid. this is the place for learning, therefore there are no stupid questions here.
     
  11. DAW

    DAW Kapellmeister

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    I sincerely don't understand this, SAiNT.

    And, as I'm the only one on this page who used the word 'stupid', am I right if I suppose this is for my post?

    Because nowhere is written on this page that someone asked a stupid question.

    But yes, there was a possibility (as written in my post) that someone gave a stupid, nonsense, misleading answer, wasting Ztriumph's time and enjoyment.

    Just tell me, please. I'll be reassured whatever your position is and my wrong understanding and interpretation are/would be.

    [ As asked above:
    Want me to leave this site? ]
     
  12. Kick Radio

    Kick Radio Newbie

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    thanks man but may i ask you what im to do if this technique fails
    theres a plugin called vocal eraser that i haave from izotope but it also screws up at times :/
     
  13. Kwissbeats

    Kwissbeats Audiosexual

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    sorry for opening up a old topic, but I readed your rant, and thought to myself phase reversing did work for me once on a special occasion, here some simple math:

    you got a track, the instrumental is obvius stereo and vocals are mono, split the track in a left and right channel reverse 1 of those put those 2 togheter and 'tadaa' you have a instrumental track
    now put both the orignal and the fresh instrumental track on 1 channel reverse 1 in phase and you have a 'accapella', some smart reverbing cuutting and boosting and you are pretty close to an somewhat decent accapella
    put it on your own tracks and u will find your intrumental disguise its artifacts and glitches

    this won't work for most songs but it did for me on some pre 90's dutch crap musick :rofl:
     
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