Hi I have listened to the K-system metering. I have a doubt maybe it's me because i didn't understand 100% how it works, lemme summarize it. So instead of have our 0 db as usual we put the 0 db at -14 db for every track to get more headroom. But every sound when it's lower it changes how it fell when you listen at it. (Headphones... i am not using the monitors.) For example a kick at -3 db doesn't sound like a -14db, for that:

1) How can you mix anything when you are listening to it at a lower sound? I think a sound is easier to mix when you heard it well/loud.

2) Also i didn't understand when we were supposed to raise the volume at a certain level we like to. Does this pass has to be done at mastering?

3) The K-system metering good point is to let the mastering with more headroom right?

4) What stops me to don't use this method and continue to mix with every track at -3db or below?

Thanks all of you,
love.

 

That loudness metering is a quite weak indicator to show wheter something sounds pleasant.

 

You are not monitoring at a lower level. You calibrate your monitors to somewhere between 78-83 dB SPL. You can use an app on your phone. For headphones, someone else can give you tips; but it's the same premise.

You can bring the track up to final loudness at the end of your mixing stage, if you want. You can put a final limiter plugin which can then be easily removed or bypassed should you decide to actually "master" the track.

Additional headroom is an included benefit. Being able to trust your ears is more the point, because you have calibration and standardization.
There are multiple reasons to do it, but I think that is the best one.

 

i found a thread here. I am reading it
https://audiosex.pro/threads/k-metering-on-headphone.41844/

 

First of all, I would try to find the ideal volume for listening and working. Load a finished project or a reference file. You should develop a feeling as to whether it is too loud or too quiet for your ears. It should be a comfortable volume that you feel comfortable with.

The volume also depends on the quality of your headphones and your audio interface.

Load a project you are working on and mute all FX. And all tracks to 0 dB. Now set the output volume control to -0.1 dB, i.e. slightly below the magic 0 dB limit. It stays there and is not changed.

Then we come to the Inserts control, set it to minus -8 dB to -12 dB (headroom). If you now play the project and your project is too quiet, increase the headroom until you have a comfortable volume in your headphones. Not too loud - not too quiet. So that you can listen for a longer period of time without getting tired.

Now you have determined your ideal listening volume. Now save your project.

Pull all the tracks down so that everything is quiet and start with the drums and pull the track up, then the bass and so on. Now put the compressor on the drums and if the drums are too quiet turn the "Make Up" control on the compressor plugin to the right until you have the ideal volume.

Mixing and mastering is actually the same process in the DAW today.

Mixing Tutorial - What Is Headroom? Recording, Mixing & Mastering

 

Last edited: Mar 8, 2025

The whole point of using K-Metering is to make sure you always have a consistent headroom when mixing. You're not monitoring lower, you're getting your meters confused with SPL. The numbers on the screen are not the numbers in decibels coming out of your headphones. I think you might be overcomplicating what K-Metering does.

K-Metering was a game changer for me, I have VCAs all around my sessions to change the gain structure and it helps me keep it consistent at all times.

 

EDiT: Are you talking about Loudness Metering?

K-Metering, as you're calling it, refers to Loudness Metering with the use of K-Weighting, which can be thought of as an EQ curve. This is placed on the incoming audio signal before hitting the meter. This is measured as LKFS and is the American standard (ATSC)

LUFS, on the other hand, does not use any EQ curve on the incoming audio signal, and is the European standard (EBU.)

 

So why would you run your entire workflow around k-14 only to have headroom, when you can immediately regain headroom in your DAW?

 

Bob Katz created the K-System.

We used to have:

* RMS metering (no weighting)
* RMS metering (K-weighting)

Now we have:

* Loudness metering (no-weighting) (LUFS) (EBU) (European standard)
* Loudness metering (K-weighting) (LKFS) (ATSC) (American standard)

 

I wouldn't, and don't.

I use -23 LUFS-I (Integrated) until I'm mastering, at which point I'm just boosting into my clipper(s)/limiter(s) until I reach whatever Loudness target I want.

 

I only do K-Metering on my master fader. I think it's pointless for anything else. One of the best use cases I have for it is knowing when the energy shifts in the song towards the chorus. Low energy parts in the green, high energy in the yellow. If something is poking out too much, I pull the VCA down until the whole thing is in the green again. Faster, easier and cleaner than Peak/RMS.

 

Relate to lufs, peak, true peak and rms based systems. And ears, distortions

 

Consider this thought experiment: When you're currently working on audio without K-meter, you've got your monitors set to a comfortable level, so you don't go deaf, right?

So what would happen if you raised your monitors 14 dB from where they're currently set and left it there? You'd naturally pull back the faders in the DAW by 14 dB for the material you're currently listening to, right? Because otherwise it would be too loud. This results in the same listening level that it was before, right? If the speakers go up 14 dB and the signal goes down 14 dB then the gain changes cancel each other out.

What your ears hear in either case isn't any different because you're always setting to a comfortable listening level, regardless. The difference is that if your monitors are set at a fixed point then the way to control the volume is by manipulating the actual signal rather than the playback system. If you're manipulating the actual signal then you will naturally provide yourself with headroom.

 

Just make level higher outside your DAW. With your audio interface. Or even with your OS. If you would use monitors you could adjust the level with them. Compensate the level anywhere you can. -14 dB is the internal level for your DAW only.

Audio level doesn't change timbre (if we talk about a sample). But a sample can sound differently with different levels as some harmonics and frequencies are quieter than other ones. With lower levels these quieter frequencies are "muted" (sort of). When you hear a "different" sound it is not different, you just hear how your kick sounds with lower levels.

In most cases if your mix sounds well with lower levels it will sound well with any level. High levels "embellish", "prettify" music. If you prefer louder sound go this route. But thy to mix with different levels, change them systematically from time to time. And listen how your music sounds with lower levels from time to time. You just change a point of view. Think of it as if low level and high one are sort of two different headphones.

 

cant found any software for it. asked chatgpt but gave me only s**t advice not working or working but not well.

"1) How can you mix anything when you are listening to it at a lower volume? I think a sound is easier to mix when you heard it well/loud."

thats the point of it. i think the bad thing is that you can't fully hear the sounds due to the lower gain set.

I am starting thinking i should try mix with speakers and calibrate them

But i'm continuing my will to play with headphones too

 

What kind of headphones do you have? Which audio interface do you use?

 

sony mdr7506
no audio interface. (i'll buy soon)
i am using asio4all
(I am already using autoeq calibration)

 

Last edited: Mar 9, 2025

Nope. You can hear it exactly the same, because you will have your monitors turned up to offset the amount of volume you are taking off at your mixer channels. This is why many people will do this using either Region Gain/Clip Gain values, or a Utility plugin. It is the fastest way to bring everything down to -14dB (or other value), while reseting your channel faders to unity. This way you can add whatever headroom you want by lowering it there and regain maximum resolution at your faders, at the same time. You can always regain headroom in your DAW channel. That's why we do not have a Bob Katz system whose only purpose is maintaining proper headroom. You can do that in one minute.

This is not difficult stuff, which is why I suspect you are content farming anyway.

 

Last edited: Mar 9, 2025

If you buy an audio interface, your listening volume will automatically be louder.
The audio quality will also be much better. You will then have no difficulty adjusting anything.

- Audient iD14 MKII = 217 € --> Powerful headphone amplifier with independent DAC
- Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen = 119 € --> Sales rank at thomann No.1

 

Why do you think that when any metering system does not change the gain structure? Metering is purely cosmetic.

I don't think you're trolling, I just think that's a severely uninformed view. This is like, first day of mixing level of knowledge that is lacking in this thread.