I have currently been reading about the apparent benefits of VST3 plugins.

It seems to be a bit of a 'grey area'.

Basically I am thinking of changing my DAW to one that supports VST3 functionality.

I was wondering if anybody has experienced any substantial benefits when implementing VST3 and whether it is worth changing your DAW simply to accomodate VST3 functionality.

In effect is it worth it?

 

I cant tell the difference to be honest apart from it putting it in categorys like Dynamics, EQ, Mastering, Mixing etc. Even if their is a small difference i don't think it is worth learning a whole new DAW over.

 

VST3 is a new standard developed by Steinberg that has many benefits over the older VST 2.4 plugs. Here's some of the features it brings to the table:

Improved performance
Managing large plug-in sets and multiple virtual instruments on typical studio computer systems can often be difficult because of CPU performance limits. VST3 helps to improve overall performance by applying processing to plug-ins only when audio signals are present on their respective inputs. Instead of always processing input signals, VST3 plug-ins can apply their processing economically and only when it is needed.

Multiple dynamic I/Os
VST3 plug-ins are no longer limited to a fixed number of inputs and outputs. Their I/O configuration can dynamically adapt to the channel configuration they’re inserted in, meaning that any VST3 plug-in can be surround-capable with true multi-channel processing. For example, all the new VST3 plug-ins in Nuendo 4 can work in stereo-mode when inserted into a stereo channel, but switch to 6 channels when inserted into a 5.1 channel. Each audio channel is processed independently. Interaction between channels depends on the type and design of the plug-in. In addition to their flexible audio bussing capabilities, VST3 plug-ins may also offer a dedicated event bus. Typically, this is a MIDI input for control/modulation but these busses are no longer restricted to MIDI standard only. Future plug-ins may replace the common MIDI interface with alternative methods of control.

Activating/deactivating busses
A typical issue with current virtual instruments is their audio output bussing system and how they’re connected to the mixer after loading. Especially virtual samplers with multiple outputs often occupy more mixer channels than need. The VST3 interface offers the possibility to deactivate unused busses after loading and even reactivate those when needed. This cleans up the mixer and further helps to reduce CPU load.

Resizable edit windows
VST3 introduces a new approach to plug-in GUIs though window resizing, allowing for extremely flexible use of valuable screen space.

Sample-accurate automation
VST3 also features vastly improved parameter automation with sample accuracy and support for ‘ramped’ automation data, allowing completely accurate and rapid parameter automation changes.

Logical parameter organization
The plug-in parameters are displayed in a tree structure. Parameters are grouped into sections which represent the structure of the plug-in. Parameters like “Cutoff” and “Resonance” could be grouped into a section called “Filter”. This makes searching for a certain parameters easier, such as on an automation track. This also allows assigning a group of parameters to a specific MIDI Channel input and audio output bus.

Optional VST3/SKI combination
As a direct result of the modular interface design of VST3, the Steinberg Kernel Interface (SKI) can be combined with VST3 plug-ins. SKI is an additional SDK that allows extremely close integration of a plug-in with a Steinberg host application, and allows functions to be carried out almost from within the application. This extends to the ability to create tracks, copy, cut, paste or process events in the Steinberg host application. SKI is provided to selected industry partners upon request.

VSTXML for remote controllers
Remote controllers for audio and MIDI software applications have become increasingly popular. With VSTXML, VST3 offers far more flexible control of VST plug-ins by remote controllers. Using the knobs and faders on the control surface, parameters can be recorded, renamed and edited in many ways. Parameters that cannot be edited can be routed for display purposes to the control surface, for example to show Gain Reduction on compressor.

UTF16 for localized parameter naming
In VST3, all strings that can be displayed to the user are in Unicode (UTF16) format. Usage of this universal character base allows the host application to display characters in localized languages.

No MIDI restriction for parameter value transfers
VST3 has a dedicated interface for event handling that carries a much wider range of functionality than standard MIDI events would be able to provide. This opens up a big range of opportunities for musical use cases with very high potential for innovative product design. For example with VST3 some controller events (for example, pitch) can be referred to a note event (using a note unique ID). This offers the possibility to e.g. modulate only a single note which itself is part of a chord.

Audio inputs for VST instruments
The VST3 interface expands VST instruments by adding the ability to create audio input busses. As a result, audio data can be routed to an VST3 instrument. A synthesizer which has a built-in e.g. vocoder effect is able to process audio data coming in from other sources as well.

Multiple MIDI inputs/outputs
Unlike with VST 2.x,, a VST3 plug-in can have more than only one MIDI input or one MIDI output at the same time.

64-bit processing
VST3 plug-ins are generally able to process audio data in 64-bit.

So as you can see it's quite important and not just for the extras but because it makes more efficient use of your resources. VST2.4 has been deprecated already too.

 

@mattmckay
I wouldn't change my workflow just for vst3 beneficts.

I'm using vst3 all the time now, the only difference is only on the cpu load. I'm using an intel i3 3.20 ghz + Studio one trasform features + vst3. This combo allows me to reach like 60 tracks full of processing and hit 70 % on the cpu. I'm planning to buy an i7 but for now i can work like that. I tried vst3 on FL also but this daw can only load one instance of the vst3 version, so i can't compare with S1

 

Considering the advantages of Reaper´s multiprocessing capabilities I would assume that you could still use more VST2-plugins in reaper than VST3-plugins in any other daw...

 

I think VST3 and Reaper will be something in the lines of 'when hell freezes over' .

On the other hand, Reaper is the DAW that 'fixes' a lot of things that makes VST3 interesting in the first place.
AS a note about 'changing your DAW', not all plugins are around in VST3, and if they do some (most?) are just simple VST2 versions put into a VST3 container without any extra benefit.

I don't know if these things are Reaper specific or not, but:
- A VSTi with multiple outputs cluttering up your mixer? Well, the channels you don't use you can just simply delete in Reaper, leaving the channels you actually use.
- Flexible multi-channel support? Since Reaper has no notion of a 'mono track' in the first place this doesn't apply, and you can add channels as you wish (make a 34 channel track? Sure) and route them into VST's as you want.
A plugin that changes it's behaviour depending on '1', '2' or '6' channels Reaper can't do, it requires a 'mono', 'stereo' and '5.1' version for that. But you can add the 5.1 version on a stereo track no problem, or the other way around. .
- Resizable edit windows: Can be done in VST2 as well, Reaper works fine with it
- Performance: The only thing VST3 can help in this regard is that VST3 can 'pause' the plugin if no input is being fed into it. VST2 runs all the time in theory. But if you can only use 25 instances of a 1176 plugin in VST2, don't expect that number to drop when using a VST3 version of the plugin. And since Reaper can run projects at 60% cpu utilization where StudioOne on the same machine is complaining about lack of CPU power... you're good with Reaper in that department .

But there are other things that I didn't encounter yet, but the audio-into-VSTis seems crucial for certain effects (think of feedback routing for an amp-sim, or a vocoder like the example given). 64-bit processing (has nothing to do with 32bit/64bit cpu's / software) as a requirement helps a lot. VST2 can do 64-bit-processing as well. But since it's not required a lot of VST's don't do it. So if you put your DAW into 64-bit-mixing mode but use 32-bit-precision VST's it is kinda a waste. VST3 will help with this.
Also, things like sample-accurate automation you never miss until that one moment where you require it and you start blaming yourself for not having a VST3 compatible DAW.

So, as a Reaper user / lover (and one that hardly ever uses any kind of VSTi except for Superior Drummer) I don't miss it at all. I only miss it when I get a plugin that can do sidechaining ONLY with the VST3 method, instead of also supporting the VST2 method. (Waves Vocal Rider for example).

But.. who knows I might miss it later. And Reaper is not for everyone, let's be clear on that . There are things wrong with Reaper other people can't live with, or they just don't like it. And I think only having VST2 in any other DAW would be a disaster . I only use StudioOne to export my Reaper project to it, use a plugin that works in VST3 only, and then bounce that track and bring it back into Reaper. I'm just used to working Rraper it goes so much faster for me. But those few times I had to export-bounce-import.. I'm glad I had StudioOne around. It happens almost never, less than once a year on average.. but it happens .

 

Reaper developers for some reason are reluctant to implement VST3 compatibility. Depending of your projects you can benefit more or less of VST3 goodies. The most important benefit at the moment is the CPU use when using effects that doesn't receive input signal during the entire track.

Note that I say "at the moment", because as you can see in Catalyst's list there are improvements that we're are not used to. But in the long term they can become "must have" in certain situations.

On the other hand, like it or not, Steinberg is who develops VST standards. They can do moves that will eventually force users to use VST3 compliant sequencers.

It reminds me a bit, although is a very different subject, to Microsoft with his DirectX versions.

 

Excellent thread. I've learned a lot here!

 

Maybe in future REAPER will have VST3-support...Who knows... maybe with REAPER 5.0+ release...i hope

 

Fl Studio 11 supports VST 3 :}

 

The new stance for Reaper and VST3 is iirc they're willing to do it, but it's just a very big investment and they're a bit turned off by it. For VST2, sample code was supplied, but for VST3, it was overengineered and no sample code was supplied. I'd estimate hundreds, if not thousands of lines to implement VST3.

I have a few VST2s that use a near-constant amount of CPU or use ridiculous amounts of CPU when there is no signal (even more so than with signal). I may use hacks like ACS to bring the CPU usage down.

 

"We've looked at VST3, and are not planning on supporting it in REAPER (at least unless a ton of third party plug-ins support and require VST3).

We have our VST2.4 extensions listed here: http://reaper.fm/sdk/vst/

And we also are excited about helping define a new, open plug-in API. Much of what Angus has written makes a lot of sense to us.

The biggest thing, though, I get excited about, is having a plug-in API that is compatible with open source licenses. The fact that VST effectively prevents LGPL or even BSD licensed plug-ins is completely ridiculous...

Justin Frankel
Cockos Incorporated / REAPER
www.reaper.fm"

 

VST 2.4 has been deprecated. Since most are not programmers here's a definition of deprecation:

 

samplitude pro x2 support VST3

 

Studio One here, vst3 for me are slighty lighter on cpu than vst2.4

 

But I get the impression that VST2 is still used quite a bit? Hell, I modified a VST2 last week, because VST3 was too much of a hassle to make work.

Outdoing yourself and myself, REAPER apparently supports VST3 in V5 :>