Don't believe I stated that AMD cannot work with Thunderbolt. Just pointed out that UAD & Microsoft have a difficult history with Thunderbolt under the Windows platform.

A reddit article/post from 2 years ago goes into detail of what was done to overcome UADs shortcomings.

• The Definitive Guide to Building a WORKING Universal Audio/UAD AMD/Ryzen AM5/Thunderbolt 4-Capable Windows 10 PC - Pops/Crackling SOLVED!

 

I think you missunderstood what i said, sorry. I was talking in general in this discussion, not that you personally said it. Some said AMD wasnt compatible with UAD thunderbolt devices when they actually are.

 

ASRock motherboards for AM5 are much better. Implementation of Thunderbolt is different among motherboards, some dont have "real support" which is a real issue (I think Asus had done it as an "addon" which wasnt working 100%).

 

Last edited: Nov 26, 2024

The better solution, in that case, would be to use a separate computer for games. Maybe a Mac Mini M4 for music production and a PC with a bit cheaper CPU for gaming?

 

Stop the press hahaha.
Asus Crosshair Hero X670E works just fine with TB3/4 and UAD cards, it has dual USB4/TB4 ports built in (the second one can double as Display Port out too). I personally built a comp on this mobo more than once and first time was with two Apollo 8ch. I have posted pics of the studio it was installed on another thread, can't remember which tbh.
The mobo is high end and although not new, the price will be steep at around 500 euros. Oh and USB4 is TB4 compatible. Which in return is compatible with TB3.
This is how the backplate looks like, the ports on the left are USB4/TB4 40gbps ( and labeled as such so you can't miss them) Cheers
PS: For obvious reasons (Intel property) Thunderbolt is not labeled as such on the USB4 ports. This doesn't mean it is not compatible 100%.

 

X870E-AORUS-PRO does have thunderbolt implemented in the USB4 port, but it is not officially supported by Intel. I would say it is safer to go Intel when it comes to thunderbolt. Those new Intel Ultra CPU's have thunderbolt natively implemented on CPU. So my advice is to by something like this:
Intel Core Ultra 7 265K
Gigabyte Z890 AERO D
If you can get hold on fast CUDIMM DDR5 memory

Be sure to update to latest bios, chipset and Windows 11. Intel has promised to fix issues early december on those new CPU's so they gonna be much better optimized for example gaming. Also those new chips from Intel is excellent allrounders not only good for gaming. And they are much cooler than gen 13 and 14 CPU's.

 

Last edited: Nov 26, 2024

No problem!

It all comes down to correct drivers, BIOS settings, cabling & motherboard. Also, overclocking improperly & to the max like your competing for a benchmark record wreaks havoc on system stability. Especially with the most recent AMD & Intel CPUs. Puget Systems has somewhat older info how to configure Thunderbolt security settings for macOS & Windows to get around driver & hardware recognition issues.

Thunderbolt is just another example of the lack of a standard pro level solution for Windows. I would personally like to see Microsoft create a true 64 bit professional version of Windows. This while ceasing to create false CPU & hardware compatibility. Microsoft quietly brought back Firewire support to Windows 11. I am sure that Microsoft can fix ASIO & Thunderbolt issues within the OS & holding third party partners to a detailed standard.

 

I got an Intel ASUS piece of shit that never worked properly. That didn't have proper Thunderbolt support and I remember similar issues with update stuff being hit and miss.

ASRock seem really decent in my experience but I've heard them dissed quite a bit. They were pretty good with support with me and my UAD I think. I can't remember the issue but everything has worked solid for a few years now, but its an old board, like 370 or something.

 

This is much safer now with the new Intel Ultra CPU's where thunderbolt is natively direct on the CPU. Also Thunderbolt has come a long way on pc since arriving on around 2015 on very few motherboards. Thunderbolt has become an established standard both on pc and mac. Of course some brands still writes shitty drivers for Windows in general. Not only ASIO thunderbolt drivers.

 

It is not. TB on Intel desktop cpus runs from the chipset (takes 4 pci-e lanes) and so does on AMD Ryzen. On AMD Threadripper though it runs straight from the cpu!

Well to my experience and having built quite a lot Thunderbolt systems over the years, more than half the times it is a user's error that TB isn't working when it should. Obviously Windows is not MacOS, for TB to work and depending what's provided in driver setup by the mobo vendor, you may need the correct Intel driver installed. Luckily for Win users, the past 1-2 years since USB4 started appearing on motherboards, compatibility has become a non issue and any mobo that features USB4 ports should work out of the box with UAD or any other TB interface like Antelope, Motu, RME, Presonus, etc. I hope this resolves any hesitation for AMD or even Intel systems.
PS: Generally older systems that rely on add-on TB cards like Asus' older boards or Gigabyte etc., half the times would have problems, like working just fine then rebooting and not working etc.
USB4 solves all this as it is hardwired on mobos backplates electrically capable of supporting any TB peripheral.
Edit: And everybody should understand that Thunderbolt is just PCI-E over USB C. An additional driver makes connectivity and compatible devices handshake/recognition possible at the expense of a software layer header latency versus a straight pci-e connection. That is all there is to it. I don't understand why the big fuss hehehe.

 

Last edited: Nov 26, 2024

What are you drunk or something?

 

I think you are right and i was wrong. Np. But not sure really and not drunk hahaha. It is not clear if it goes straight from the cpu though as it speaks about the "platform" which also contains the chipset there. In every older Intel system up to 14th gen TB goes through the chipset. And even in Core Ultra series Intel is still using DMI :
Expansion Options
Direct Media Interface (DMI) Revision
4
Max # of DMI Lanes
8
Intel® Thunderbolt™ 4
Yes

Oh and i read some redditers about how USB4 is NOT compatible with TB4. It can be true in some very rare occasions, due to the chip used on particular mobos for USB4, still, anything i built in with USB4 did work with TB3 interfaces.

 

Last edited: Nov 26, 2024

The user error is usually caused by not reading required material assuming it should just be plug&play not realizing the layers of configuration for Thunderbolt to function smoothly. Also a lack of thorough research leading to the wrong component/motherboard choices.

 

that said, not all "USB-C" cables are equal, which makes eventual troubleshooting more complicated

that "100% compatibility" may break anytime on BIOS/Windows/driver updates, hence why I'd suggest caution

 

Crazy shit.
No i read, that the x870 Boards cut the PCIe GPU Lane to 8x when you use USB 4 AND the nvme SSDs.
Crazy. What to buy :D

guys, i found the https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X870E Taichi Lite/index.asp
ASRock X870E Tiachi LITE!

The lite seems not to do lane sharing.
do you think i can Use the TB3 Apollo UAD, 2x nvme SSDs, RX 7900 XT GPU and a few normal Sata SSDs without compromiss?

 

Last edited: Nov 27, 2024

Contact them and ask. They were great with me a few years ago

 

Absolutely. Users should use only certified Thunderbolt cables and not just any type C cable they might have lying around.

Yep. Especially with Win11, it is really a guess if your next update will "magically" replace your driver with MS's generic TB driver, which -to my experience- does not work correctly, even to this day. If someone knows that anything newer has come up in MS's driver camp, you may correct me.
@Daskeladden I did some digging to find exactly what gives. I am surprised this eluded me but you were right, TB4 takes pci-e lanes from the cpu in the Core Ultra series. Intel increased the number of pci-e 5.0 lanes coming from the cpu to 20 (from 16 in 14th gen). The way TB4 integrates in the cpu is through the cpu's I/O tile. So presumably any mobo for Core Ultra that has TB4 should theoretically work just fine.
The caveat for @Swatch is Ableton Live does not use the Efficiency Cores (at least not yet) and hasn't been doing so since Intel shifted from equal cores architecture to Performance+Efficiency cores (from 12th gen and onwards). Therefore, you may be able to get a cheap Z890 mobo like the AsRock Z890 Pro-A Wifi which is listed for ~220 euros and has TB4 onboard, but if your choice of DAW is Ableton Live you will pay a hefty premium for cpu cores that will not be utilized. I hope this will change because with all the fuss about Core Ultra's subpar gaming performance, people tend to neglect the cpu is great for multicore workloads.
On the AMD camp the only cheap mobo with TB4 is the Asus B550 Pro-Art (~200) but this will only take up to Ryzen 5xxx series cpus as it is AM4 socket.

Not entirely true. It depends on the user's config of connected peripherals and of course platform & chipset. In general, some mobos will use auto bifurcation to handle connectivity of peripherals due to a minimal number of available pci-e lanes and this is also the case in the Intel camp as well. The next have been mentioned before in the forum but here goes anyway:
X870 is not the same as X870E. There is a distinct difference between the two which was not so apparent on X670/X670E series. X870E supports twice the USB and SATA ports than X870, and as a platform it has overall 8 more usable pci-e lanes.
X870 = 36 usable pci-e lanes while X870E = 44 usable pci-e lanes.
The latter can easily translate to two additional nvme ssds without compromises, as each nvme ssd (modern models) will normally use 4 pci-e lanes.
Atm, if performance plus stability are the two questions at hand (i 'd take stability first for any pro workstation environment), i wouldn't invest in a brand new platform just because it's new and shiny.
Until those Zen5 reported bugs are fixed, X670E is mature and compatible with Zen5 cpus, so a future cpu upgrade is possible .
A mobo like the Asus X670E Hero i mentioned, does work with TB3 interfaces and is as solidly built as it gets. Thickest pcb, monstrous VRM, plenty of onboard connectivity. And friendly suggestion, go for the 7950X if you can find on a decent price with BlackFriday coming up.
Cheers

 

Thank you very much for this detailled answer
It´s the third time i read about the Asus X670E Hero. Seems really to be a solid board.
I got some answers now about the Taichi also.
Sure, it´s super new and maybe the new Boards needs all some BIOS Updates.,
But i think we try it with the taichi. Send a Email to Asrock aksing them for the Thunderbolt 3 and 4 Support.
I will update here

 

thats not true at all
its was a thunderbolt implementation that is the main problem
because usb ua cards work just fine

intels thunderbolt, specificity the usb implantation is the biggest problem
FOR ALL (True) TB DEVICES
some Realtime devices wont work AT ALL with usb4 TB4
most of the problems seem to be with that, not "uad writing for mac" nonsense
apple just used true TB (no usb)

Intel also fucked up security for tb2 that's why no ua tb2 stuff will work with tb4 (but will with tb3)
and you will will find octo tb2 for 2-400 used

ANY TB Device for win should be tested beforehand!!
Especially if DSP is involved!

 

I found this in my emails. Took about 2 days to get a reply off ASRock if that's helpful...

Something worth mentioning that I hadn't considered is that I always boot the computer first, leave it a few seconds then turn on the Apollo USB. I've no idea why I do this, my memory is shit, but I think that booting the Apollo first means it doesn't connect. I can't remember properly, but I've had a stable and working system with Taichi for about 5 years.

UAD are shit for support in my experience. With Windows they just bail out when shit gets too complicated. Mac seems to be more solid according to reports.

https://uadforum.com/community/inde...ility-with-amd-x570-motherboards.43809/page-3