For real. A discussion has to be interactive. Cutting off certain established names as "rubbish", other soft etc., does not really help the purpose of discussion, does it. It's a one part self contained declarations of "this is bad, this is good" etc.

Sure, the trap of 99 euros i paid 20 years ago and upgrade forever, without paying anything again haha. What a waste you cannot resell it for 50 euros and get rich lol. Btw, i really must have used FL only once or twice. The fact that i produced a whole album in 2004 by exporting all tracks from it importing them to my DAW of choice back then, was well worth the price of 99.
In the meanwhile all other soft i own like Cubase for instance, used to charge you even for the 0.5 update hehe.
So, still waiting to hear something to justify your superiority, even on attitude, over Deadmouse's "commercial rubbish". Bcoz critics, the world 's full of them. Isn't this about music after all? I'm all ears please.
Cheers

 

What a waste you cannot resell it for 50 euros and get rich lol.

 

The Steinberg Cubase employees also do work for this. And they also pay health insurance contributions, pension contributions and taxes.
Nobody works there for free, they have to feed their families, pay their rent and cover their living expenses.

In addition, there is VAT on every product they buy, here in Germany it is 19% VAT!
Thank God there is Team R2R, get out of the dubious business models and install cracked software!

 

if money is not an objection and the time you have to learn is limited then go with the most user friendly. i'd be willing to bet that logic is the easiest to fumble with, but ptobably like most of apple things will be very limited in what you can do besides the obvious.cakewalk is free so there's that if money is a problem. or reaper, by far the most versatile, but it does have a learning curve.
or if you're partial to the sister site then choose whatever. haha.
Anyways, there will be as many opinions as users.

BUT, before all that: what kind of music? sample based? or mostly miced "real" instruments (like acoustic guitar, etc). that can also play a part. either way, it's not the daw that will be in the way of making music. it's mostly the user's fault. remember daniel johnston, suicide, etc.

 

ImageLine has a really good pro-customer business model, which has worked really well for them. If you are active on their forum, you will know that they are someone who promise and keep it. Giving free updates to someone who has paid some 20 years ago, while everyone else is just running after money is no joke. And they have been doing it since 25 years. It's time we call the good, the good. I understand the critisism on the product, but I don't understand the hate for 'free updates'.

 

Last edited: Oct 26, 2024

whats that thang about bitwig and synths , why is it better in soundesign than others ?

...also bitwig seem to be the last major DAW which came out for good , nobody can compete against DAWs in versions like way above v10 , am i wrong ?...and we all know bitwig dev was a one of the main ableton coders .

 

this is simply not true, not in the current version at least,

by your logic I would have 16896 samples PDC with 33 plugins at 512 buffer, while I get only 3850 (which isn't even dividable by 512),

I do remember what you describe was an issue years back, but not anymore

 

I do agree on this. People have to pay the bills. But the same goes for every "grown enough company" like Image Line. If we 're talking Steiny, i must have paid them over 14k euros (in current money vs inflation) in the course of 35 yrs that i own Cubase. Let alone that i do own Wavelab as well. So what was my gift from Steiny for being a loyal customer for the duration of a lifetime? Nothing. Absolutely nada. A pat on the back from the official representative of Steinberg in my country and a fake smile. Something like being a veteran out of the army lol, attaboy.

Apart from other things, it has a whole very deep part dedicated to modulating all sorts of sources. Still, Live's integration with MAX makes it second to none towards this direction too. It just needs more digging in, whereas with Bitwig it's all integrated in the DAW, no need for addons.
Cheers

 

Last edited: Oct 26, 2024

Bitwig has the Grid which is a wholly integrated modular environment inside the DAW. Now, it's not as powerful modular as Max4Live (or Reaktor or Puredata/Plugdata or or) but it's the fastest and easiest to use. Really fun to create odd MIDI manglers and such. So for some it's really the quickest way to create an idea from the brain to the DAW.

 

That was your crazy argument that leads nowhere of some big industry name that uses some tool so it's good, I just illustrated that it's incorrect. A grown up person should already understand that you can't prove anything on such subjective level like music taste. That only your choice to love somebody like Zimmerman in his creations)

>trap of 99 euros
Thats seems funny to you but for beginner kids saving for a $449 package than releasing it was a bad investment it maybe not, you should remember there are countries where even 99 euros spent wrong could be critical. Thanks we have R2R and other groups. I should mention here to the credit of Image Line, that their demo restrictions are rather generous as far as I know.

 

It's nice, Taskforce, that you're saying here what all this cost. And it's nice that you're expressing an honest feeling, namely feeling cheated. That's how it is in turbo capitalism. In Germany, where Steinberg is based, they say "ingratitude is the world's reward".

There are companies where the boss fires people after 40 years and gets neither thanks nor recognition. It's actually a cultural decline that people are rude, don't say thank you anymore and treat their customers like slaves.

 

Not good manifestations of Fruity fanboism attacking a person for rating posts. Please be civil.)

 

Best you try out the demo's since pretty much all offer them now. Personally, using Cubase Pro 13, arguably the most feature rich DAW, but always remember, they all have their flaws, GUI can appeal to one person but not another, so best you try them out before investing time/money.

 

The Bitwig Studio borrows heavily from Ableton Live, and the developers are partly recruited from former Ableton employees.

Ableton was founded by the computer scientist and musician Gerhard Behles and the computer scientist Bernd Roggendorf. Both worked together at the Berlin software company Native Instruments.

 

Hey Radio, sorry for that comment...

 

No. That's hilarious going there. Never is this a fact, in the context of "i own a computer and i want to buy soft for it". The people and countries you refer to, have more critical everyday decisions to make, like "what to eat today and will there be drinkable water" and certainly cannot afford a computer and moreover, making music on it.

You say that. I didn't. I said if it's good for him it's good for anyone and that's absolutely how the world spins mate. Because DAW, as you said at one point, is just a tool. What you do with it is different for everyone and startup musicians/producers need a reference to start with.
For Image Line, Deadmouse's success has been a "shiny beacon" and real advertising from someone who's not afraid of live streaming YT sessions from his own studio, as Zimmerman does. Whether you like his music or not, personally i'm not a big fan either, but anyway you look at it, commercial success means he does something seriously. Btw, only amateurs impose critic on established names. Pros know better to respect anyone no matter to they liking or not.
I.E. Steiny never misses a shot to demonstrate the other Zimmerman named Hans, cut last name to Zimmer, is Cubase user hehe. With the implied being, if it's good for him, well.. it should fulfill your needs too haha.
Like it ever made any real difference what software or DAW you use for fk's sake.
Still waiting to hear something that shows superiority in whatever degree or subject, but at this point i don't think you 'll ever post something other than opinions. It's ok, all talk no show, we 've seen this before haven't we.
Peace

 

Last edited: Oct 26, 2024

I am using Studio One and Adobe Audition according to my current needs.
giving me 100% results.

 

Yes, good old Native Instruments was a talent pool for the DSP plugin industry, I find sad they went MASCHINE direction plus killed almost all innovative software instead of making there own original DAW

 

I somewhat disagree with this. There are countless examples of professionals openly hating other professionals in a public manner. Jack White for example claiming The Black Keys are essentially uncreative and stole his style is just one example. However I do agree that it is unprofessional and very uncouth of someone to openly crap on someone's success. Sorry for nitpicking lol, otherwise I agree with the rest of what you say here.

100% results are the best results!

 

Yes there is this, so i agree too, but i cannot help but think of him as bitching, although i dig his music and ability. Speaking of this, perhaps i should say most professionals rather than imply all of them and you are right for nitpicking mate, thanks.
Just for the sake of discussion, I never heard, rest in peace, J.J.Cale taking the piss at names like Eric Clapton or Mark Knopfler because they borrowed from him. Or B.B.King etc etc, or even Kraftwerk complaining how everybody in the electronic scene has borrowed from them. This list can be as big as we want it to be, there's too many humble legends in the music biz.
So influence in general, is how music art works for the most part, we all play what our conscious and subconscious has heard and assimilated into our own musical vocabulary. Is this derivative? Oh yes. Can there be something new? Every now and then, there pops something unique imho. Be it a certain musical style or a particular voice timbre or some great guitar technique (ie Mateo Mancuso) etc.
I do dig Dirty Loops myself. I think they 're a musician's band. All of it is very derivative and with very distinct MJ and Stevie Wonder influences for the vocals (plus Mariah Carrey for the vocal runs hahaha), but they manage to take all this someplace else, beyond pop and jazz. Never heard Stevie bitching about Jonah blatantly borrowing certain chord progressions and head voice techniques btw.
Cheers my friend
PS: In my own micro minuscule part of the world, my personal funky style of playing and producing has been imitated by at least 10 other persons who are not my peers but came quite after me. Not that they made a fortune with it, one of them though still is the game professionally. I can't help but blush when people copy from me with a minor success. I see copying as a form of flattery.
And is always a fact even when people outright copy someone else, copycats don't last long. Because they only understand half the story of how another person came up with something. The only way to last longer, is to evolve through that into something more identifiable as unique or personal, that is turn up with their own style at the end.

 

Last edited: Oct 26, 2024