we all know the usual concept of diy acoustic panel: some material of various stiffness is put into a wooden frame and hanged in desirable locations.

there are two problems with this:
1. need to do some basic woodworking (drilling and screwing)
2. need to drill some holes in your walls/ceiling

for me personally this is a big problem, since I'm not a 'working' type of guy, and I really do not like the 'crafts' side when it comes to creativity. however, what if we change the concept a little bit and make our lifes easier?

first, why do we even need a frame? if we put a couple of slabs of mineral wool together, and tie it tight with fabric or even some roping at opposite ends of the resulting rectangle it won't go anywhere! just use two layers of fabric and glue it tight

second. if we remove a wooden frame from the equasion, we don't even need to drill the hangers, because our bass trap (or acoustic panel) is so light, that it can be held at corners by simple velcro tape

thus studio becomes somewhat modular, because it's so easy to hand and remove panels, and you can easily remove these velcro tapes from the walls by simply heating them a little bit

so
1. use fabric and/or ropes instead of wooden frame
2. use velcro tape instead of your usual hangers

what are your thoughts?

P.S. the only problem with my idea as I see it, it's the fact that when we hang an acoustic panel, it needs to have some distance from the wall for it to perform effectively. it's not a problem with bass traps, if we put 30-40cm slabs in the corners, making somewhat of a triangle, with remaining air gap near to intersection of two walls

 

It depends on what material you use. Cheap stuff that don't do much is light, but thicker isolation materials can be too heavy for what you suggest and would virtually immediately fall off the wall. Go to you local DIY store, find a roll of thick rockwool as a guide, and pick it up. It'll probably be heavier than you think it is.

 

I did just that, cover it with fabric without frame and put it on the ground in a corner.

 

Over here we have Basotect and right kind of mineral wool is hard to get. It's (also) made for use without a frame, just slap it on your wall or ceiling with the right kind of glue, so people have definitely thought about it and sell this products also. You don't need to cover it unlike wool.

I think it's much better to build frames for Basotect anyways because of the main reasons, some already mentioned:

Stability: when mounting on a ceiling or a corner it will not bend

Looks: easier to cover in fabric and nice wooden accents if wanted, looks much more professional

Easier to move and remove: you can move it and also covering two holes in a wall or ceiling is easier then repairing wall after ripping of glue.

Distance to wall: I mounted everything with a gap behind, wouldn't know how to do it without frame.


If you have an absorber sitting on the floor it might .be okay without frame but for everything hanging from walls and ceiling I wouldn't do it.

I enjoyed building the frames but I'm a carpenter so that might not be fun for everyone but still can be done with most basic tools.

 

Don't forget the ceiling of the room! A lot can be soundproofed with carpets! Sound-absorbing curtains made of molleton are also useful and inexpensive. Even bookshelves help. Sometimes you can hang Indian cloths on the ceiling.

It looks chic and doesn't cost much. If you have to live in a room where you make music, it's a good idea to hang a large stage curtain made of molleton in front of the glass window. Glass and smooth surfaces distort the reproduction of the monitor speakers.

 

Last edited: Oct 23, 2024

I made many mineral wool pillows, place them where i want (rope, fabrique, wool)

 

Last edited: Oct 23, 2024

There's that good old Towels DIY Acoustic Panel real/myth thing..

Not Frameless, but still interesting..

And here's a guy Debunking it:

Altough he also kinda proves the best alternative to "Upholstery Foam" is a Bath towel, not a Beach one.. lol

 

Last edited: Oct 27, 2024

Although I haven't bought this I wonder why it isn't used at all in audio studios. It's rigid and doesn't make you itchy if it touches your skin.

https://www.industryupdate.com.au/article/secret-out-new-stratocell-whisper-coming-australia

 

Thanks Lois Lane for the tip, I didn't know that - I've saved the link for now. The values are very good, it really absorbs the sound! Stratocell Whisper FR black | 1200x600x40mm | Stratocell Whisper FR black fireproof costs €36.90

I had a look at plates that were filled with quartz sand.
Wolf PhoneStar ST Tri sound insulation panel 12.5 mm | 1250x625mm €18.56 *

 

Where are the data for it's effectiveness?

 

A Gearspace user says:

Snake oil. Can you show me the lab test results proving the company's claims for acoustic performance? No, I know you can't.
https://gearspace.com/board/studio-...tratocell-whisper-foam-recording-studios.html

 

i might totally miss your point but i dont think that it is the "usual" way to have a wooden frame around acoustic panels.

the normal case is that you do not have a wooden frame around it. a frame only makes it a bit easier to attach (especially to the ceiling) but other than that it does not have any major advantage or disadvantage.

40mm is only half the job, if you have the room(sic!) for it, go for 120.

the best material is worth nothing if it is only fraction of the wavelength.

 

I wanted to insulate the wall to the neighbor, high frequencies are relatively easy to combat but low frequencies can only be dealt with by mass. I decided on a drywall with 2 cm of air, 100mm wood fiber insulation board, decoupled and 2 layers of plasterboard!

 

Oh believe me it is. But mostly in acoustic panels because it is expensive. I was demonstrated this material some 3 years ago i think, when i was consulting a friend for his new studio built. I did pay a visit to my main industrial supplier company which stores this and all kinds of "exotic" industrial grade proofing (that is for heavy machinery in factories) materials that cost an arm and a leg lol.
So, the thing with this Whisper material is, a pack of 25m2 costs about 500 euros, at least where i am in EU. So, if you follow the traditional dual sandwich walls/floating room build with this for the first layer of the "sandwich", it will cost 2000 euros just for the four walls in a 25m2 room. Ceiling, floor and second proofing layer are all excluded. Therefore it's about 2-3 times the price of heavy industrial rockwool with similar acoustic properties, only more eco friendly and perhaps a little more potent in broadband absorption.
Oh @Radio the guy from Gearspace should know better imho. Everybody there is an expert but it seems to me, some of them don't even know what it is they 're reading. The NRC1 rating means the material is certified to be completely absorbent without reflections bouncing back. So it is not snake oil.
You all be well

 

Last edited: Oct 23, 2024

In America, these panels are not allowed for interior work. Before I buy them, I want to know what has been tested. I've surfed around but it's very opaque and I haven't found a meaningful test.

I would rather use rock wool or, better yet, wood fiber insulation. Yes, they're all specialists, hahahaha, you're right. The question is, do you want to keep the noise in and insulate the walls or do you want to prevent the acoustic situation and standing bass waves in your living room at home?

I'm not a fan of plastic, I prefer wood and textiles like Molton, for example. Plastic fumes are not healthy and the room climate suffers. Sometimes plastic dissolves and deforms over time. Thank you for the detailed list of your room, practical experience is always the best.

 

You are welcome. Yes you are very correct. And this Whisper material, just like rockwool, deteriorates by itself over the years. So, it is only meant to be used as insulation within sealed walls or air tight sealed panels so its fumes don't affect you when it starts dissolving over the years.
PS: Friend of mine has made acoustic panels using sheep wool as absorption material. It is a fact that it has the same acoustic absorption properties as mineral wool. Now if you do a little research, sheep wool comes at two grades. One is the wool that is considered high quality and is used in the textile industry and two is the low quality that can't be used there, but can be very well used for acoustic panels heheh. And usually it's much cheaper than the high quality sheep wool.
Cheers

 

there is no perfect material.

what you usually want is
1. non-inflammable
2. affordable (not the same number for everyone)

non-inflammable means that you can only go for the professional acoustic foams or stonewool, everything else is out of question.

stonewool´s damping is quite bad compared to professional foam material, and while basotect (melamine resin) works superb, there is always a small chance that it can seperate formaldehyde into the air, which is not so funny in a room where you basically spend all day in and which eventually do not even have a window.

so the best bet seems to be phenolic foams, but they are the most expensive basic materials of all.

correct positioning should not be underestimated. you can save a lot of material if you go for that route instead of trying to use much to reach much.

completly stiff every 2nd corner (>35 cm) and a greater plane on the ceiling between the monitors and the listener already does wonders.

 

I found the ecological acoustic panel. The material is wood fiber, clay, sheep's wool. It comes in 3 thicknesses: 50, 60 and 80 cm, the size goes from 50 cm to 150 mm. The price is not cheap, starting at 310 EUR.

Is here, https://www.baustoffplus.de/Akustik...absorber-Wandpaneele-Farbe-Hellgrau/SW10310.1 is a German speaker, you have to translate this.

There is also Silentum acoustic felt made from 100% sheep's wool: https://www.akustik-raumklima.de/Si...ollen-Farben-1-Laufmeter-anthrazit/SW10153.43

 

"Experimental Study on the Performance of Corrugated Cardboard as a Sustainable Sound-Absorbing and Insulating Material"
https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/13/10/5546

 

this is also very good stuff - but realy only works in very dry rooms, otherwise it starts to fall apart after 10 years.

and i´d like to add that i was wrong about the harmlessness of phenol foams in general. it is only one special type which is safe, unfortunately i can´t find its name now.

every material where formaldehyd was part of the production process and/or is contained, has a residual risk of giving it back one day.