actually I have one more question - usually I work with Ableton, but I started to make music with a friend who is an FL Studio oldschooler.

is there some way how I can create a plugin or addon for fruity that allows to automate the creation of notes, and more importantly of modulation-curves in the Song-TimeLine?
And saying that I mean to 'persistently generate' these.
i.e. so the Notes or Modulation-Curves remain there until modified (and don't just get created inside a plugin that's inaccessible in the DAW's Playlist/Clip-edtitor part.

 

I mean, which opportunities do you have in FL-Studio to automatically generate persistent Notes or Clip-Modulations (i.e. Modulations for automatable parameters) either in a MIDI-Pattern's clip or in the Song-Time playback timeline?

 

Victor Ruiz, ive seem him play live a few times.
If i recall correctly his type of music barely has any melody/harmony in it.
Pretty industrial techno.
This type of music is more focused on the sound design than the actual notes.

 

There are good Audio 2 Midi tools for special cases like converting guitar to MIDI but to my knowledge there aren't any decent tools that convert a whole complex piece of music into correct sheet music/MIDI files.

And that's what makes it so complicated.
If we had producers using only one synth sound it would be actually easy to make a audio 2 midi device but the endless possibilities of various sonorities make it really hard for an algorithm to distinguish whether that is just an effect or a new note (think of effects like Octaver or harmonizer they obviously confuse the algorithm)

 

Oh, that means the not much music knowledge is required, and just sound design should be enough.

 

Last edited: Sep 11, 2024

Most electronic music is made based on grooves and random notes. Analyzing these songs to find the notes used is pointless. The creators of these songs themselves do not know what they are doing, then you want to analyze them?

 

That's not the case on my planet. The majority of "creators" are musicians that play "real" instruments, many of whom are classically trained. The ones that don't play still possess an abundance of knowledge that allows them to produce music to a high standard.

 

You will often see an artist given credits as being a Producer, or Executive Producer, whatever. That is because they wrangle that extra share of money into their contract. For doing absolutely nothing. But you will never see a Producer given Musician credit for replaying or rewriting parts on the tracks. As a musician, you should insist on re-recording your own poorly played or recorded parts, overdubs, and anything of the sort. If your Producer on your project needs to play your parts again for you, next time they can use a session player hired gun, and you can begin looking for a new occupation. Or the producer can be skilled and efficient, and just deal with it in minutes using currently available technology. That's about money.

Anyone can learn how to play, or convince themselves they are good at it. Just ask any of the millions of kids a year who pick up instruments. Who are these "classically trained" musicians referenced? I'm thinking they are trained at Juliard or Berkeley, and they are "training" taking lessons at Guitar Center or marching up and down a football field in high school with a tuba.

 

Last edited: Sep 11, 2024

The OP talked about the note. I also said that electronic music is based on what was created. Electronic music is a fantasy thing that is based on mixing and has nothing to do with notes. Notes are worth analyzing when the person who uses them is fully aware of them, but when no electronic music has such a feature, analyzing them from the point of view of notes is of no benefit to anyone.

 

To be fair, I think you've gone off on a slight tangent there.

There's really no need to explain to me how some sections of the music business work, I've been in it for the best part of 40 years and have a pretty reasonable knowledge of it. I've worked in most areas; primarily as a live / studio engineer (recording / mixing / mastering / restoration), but also as a musician, in various aspects of management and promotion, I've run studios, club nights and labels and have even been a D.D.D...DJ.

Over the years, as an engineer/producer I've played guitar, bass, keys (basically), drums (badly) and recorded vocals (terribly) on multiple releases, where I've not been credited. To be honest I've never really expected credit as I'm not the artist and a bit of session work is something I've always just done as part of the engineering/production job when it's been necessary. I don't particularly care one way or another so long as I'm credited for the engineering work. Not being credited for engineering is quite annoying however and that has happened more times than I care to mention.

Executive producers... I worked for one particular label where the owner credited himself with executive producer on every single release because his ego dictated that the promotion of his name was the most important aspect of any project. He used to also do it with all promo material, even to the extent of making sure his name was on every item of a bands tour merchandise. Imagine a band t-shirt that has the managers name printed on the back - that's Trump level narcissism right there.

On the original subject, classically trained refers more to having some form of formal musical education. One doesn't need to have attended a top flight music school for that description to apply. I'm not going to get into listing electronic artists that qualify for that distinction, there's a whole history of it available, if you care to investigate, going right back to Karlheinz Stockhausen.

 

For techno sound design is more important than "notes".
An audio->midi will maybe give you some midi data, but until you dont have the exact same sound it will be useless, techno is not General Midi.

But, there are tools like Serato Studio which can "extract" audio synth/bass/drums from full tracks, and you can then manipulate the "stems" to create "samples" and generate midi notes.

I think it is still useless because it can help you recreate the track, but recreating an existing track is useless.

 

Actually, I already answered the OP's original technical question. This is just chaff. If someone asks how to perform a simple task on a computer making techno music; the minute you need to respond with a page long post about your resume; you're the one already off-topic.

The "learn to play" sentiment of comments (bait) in the thread are ones made by someone with some personal musical issues, trying to mentally puff themselves up because they can play like any 12 year old kid. The thread is about techno, which ironically; is normally something close to atonal. That's the reason for the name of the whole "melodic techno" genre; because it is an outlier. You do not need to play a Rachmaninoff to create a techno track. The entire idea of Juan Atkins or Derrick May showing up in tux and tails to play a Yamaha might be a funny mental image, but it is so far from reality it is laughable in itself.

The process of taking audio and converting it to midi is nothing more than a question of a data entry method. Others may just need to chalk that up to some other stuff they do not know how to do.

Every few years there arrives an album of dance music, with some recent conservatory graduate being hailed the new "best xyz instrument player ever" to make classical fusion whatever genre. That might be some violinist, cellist, pianist, whatever. A news article or two on mainstream media news websites. Every single time, these people make nothing but trash. They are lucky enough to make samples for Kontakt libraries after it; more likely showing their resumes off while trying to get work waiting tables in Rancho Cucamonga.

 

Last edited: Sep 12, 2024

Quoting my post infers you are responding to the content within it. I then responded back to the points you brought up about creditation and business role dynamics, even though they were a bit off topic. I'm just letting you know that stuff doesn't need explaining to me.

Back on the subject of "the notes" and the musical skills of the producers involved in making electronic music. In my opinion it's a bit conflated to judge producers on whether they can play Rachmaninoff or not. 99.999% of pianists cannot play Rachmaninoff. As you are most probably aware, it's pretty much considered the pinnacle of piano virtuosity.

Whilst it's true that techno is a case where formal musical education doesn't necessarily have the highest representation it doesn't follow that the producers involved don't also play instruments or have a high level of musical understanding. Case in point: UK acid techno developed out of the anarchist squat scene. Most of those at the forefront of the scene have a background in bands - Chris liberator, Henry Cullen, Guy Mcaffer, Laurie immersion. They may not be Juliard graduates but play instruments they definitely do.

My original response to ULX regarding musical prowess, to which you responded, was referring to "electronic" music as that is what they inferred by their comment.

Let's be realistic, "electronic" music is such a large categorisation that it can cover just about every genre in existence. For the sake of argument, in this case, I'm thinking in terms of purely sequenced music where no "real" instruments were recorded in the process and is destined for dancefloors. Even with that in mind it doesn't necessarily follow that the producers don't also play instruments just because they're not using them to make the particular music in question.

I mentioned that I ran club nights and had a label connected to that. We did techno and psy trance over a period of ten years. Our headliners were nearly always live acts. Nearly all the people I know creating psy trance are musicians and yes, many are classically trained. If you knew anything about the psy trance scene that would be something you'd be aware of.

I wouldn't disagree that there is some very dull "dance" music created by highly competent musicians because they have no real understanding or connection to the genre and what makes a track 'av it. I can think back to when Mike Oldfield released a "dance" album. It was terrible, sanitised, twee music that had zero attitude. It has probably received huge usage as insipid background music for dull TV programmes but never seen a DJs playlist.

 

There is a common mistake among everyone and that is thinking that when someone is classically trained, he knows everything and can be expected to save music. This is a terrible mistake. Classical education does not guarantee anything. These people just go and sit in a class and see and hear some things. That's it. Expectations from classically trained students should be lowered. These people are also facing the same problems that others are involved in.

 

Now I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile dusting down my old Roland GR-50 to record midi notes as I record the audio of my guitar. It has a pickup for each string so in theory it should be more accurate (software probably won't interpret the string data unless something has been specifically written for that), but would it be more accurate than Jam Origin's Midi Guitar plugin? It has mono and polyphonic mode.

 

Rocord what? How do you know which notes?
I have not yet heard the answer to this question anywhere. May you be able to provide an appropriate answer. Of course, it could be the OP's answer in a way, because he is also looking for such an answer from the analysis.

 

I know exactly which notes to use, I simply listen to The Beatles and other wonderful material. Those notes they're using are the right notes.

 

No, you don't!

They didn't know either. This group is the idol of those who never knew and do not know and will never know. I'm sorry, but the truth is what I told you. No one else will tell you this fact.

 

This word is very funny. I mean, it is as if a person is going to solve many problems by traning his ear. There is no such thing in music. There are so many ear training software and programs that advertise their effectiveness and attract many customers, but they are not very effective. Ears cannot be trained to absorb the notes. You can get a basic understanding of their properties, but at this basic level, everything stops.