When you Midi Learn a parameter of a plugin to a controller knob, you are not changing the CC number the plugin is using for the parameter. The DAW is interpreting the input from the controller to the CC number already specified in the plugin's Midi Implementation. I never link my midi controller to plugin parameters, because I will record the values in imperfectly and end up redrawing or correcting the automation for smoother ramp, curve. Skipping the MIDI learn evaluation and correction of data; and instead going straight to drawing in parameters is much faster in the long run. Once all the lanes are created, you can very quickly use Cycle Through to go from lane to lane and do your automation edits.

 

The reason I want to map midi cc to plugin parameters is to do exactly what you said, but within the piano roll. So I can draw the automation without actually having to leave the piano roll.

 

My point is not the actual logistics of doing this in Cubase, just that I think you are correct to see if there is a faster way to do it in Cubase.
If I want to look at all CC automation lanes in Logic in the same window space as the piano roll; you can just click Step Editor and it's all right there. To go back to Piano Roll view is 1 mouse click. It is super fast.

 

you correct, but you dont read my posts : )

there's one way to detect the MIDI CC for a VSTi, you need to "midi monitor" the output of the VSTi, to do that you MUST make a routing with a third party app, the midi loopback

i SUSPECT it's same way in Logic, because the problem is not in the DAW, but in the architecture of modern VSTi that has midi learn, but cant be sure, maybe logic (or Mac computers) have an internal midiloopback driver already installed (and I remember something like that) so here's the experiment:

can you detect in logic the default midi cc that a VSTi is sending to output? : )

 

you can probably use phone or ipdas or whatever as midi controller, but it has to be connected to your system as MIDI DEVICE, it has to send MIDI CC to the DAW, otherwise it wont tell to the VSTi which midi CC number use lol

you need a midi controller, and dont forghet that there are some with 8 knobs that costs 20 bucks, Id reccomend it lol

now I will write more about the midi loopback

 

no bother, dont worry, but keep in mind that you will have to study yourself how to do it, it's not complex once you do it, but I would invest 20 bucks for a controller anyway. Lessgo

1. keep in mind that the post with the screenshot from the Cubase forum is an accurate guide to setup the midi loopback routing, so refer primarily to that one

2. again, I dont know how much you have understood of it anyhow I am gonna tell more in a scheme, lets say

3. the trick here is TO DETECT WHICH MIDI MESSAGES are coming from the output of a VSTi, you understand this?
you move a knob, then with the "midi monitor plugin" you can detect whats the related MIDI CC, ok?

4. are you familiar with the "cubase midi plugin called midi monitor"? You find it as stock plugin in Cubase, it's very useful, but in order for it to detect whats coming from a VSTi it needs "a routing trick"

5. lets tell it quickly: the routing trick consists in installing a THIRD PARTY APP like midiloopback in your system that will tell Cubase that "there's a virtual midi device", it means that YOU DONT HAVE A PHYSICAL CONTROLLER but you now have VIRTUAL CONTROLLER, a fake midi controller, installed in your system

6. after that, you make a dummy midi track in Cubase with NO OUTPUT, but receving the MIDI INPUT FROM THE VIRTUAL CONTROLLER/DEVICE you just installed

7. you move any knob on any VSTi and SEND the OUTPUT to your MIDI VIRTUAL DEVICE MIDI IN

8. the virtual device will receive the signal AND SEND it BACK TO CUBASE, everything inside the computer, it's a "midi loopback" fake lol

9 then your amazing "cubase midi monitor plugin" detect which is the MIDI CC and will tell you

10. you go in the piano roll and write automation using that CC because you now know that's controlling that knob.

Done

forgot: loopMIDI | Tobias Erichsen (tobias-erichsen.de)

 

Last edited: Jul 6, 2024

True. I thought you were continuing along on the Padshop angle of attack. A separate approach to it.

Of course I cannot figure out anything about VSTi in Logic. It won't even load them. I'd have to use Patchwork or other wrapper to load your stinking VST plugins. But maybe I can figure it out with an AU.

I just reinstalled recently so I do not have a plethora of instrument plugins reinstalled yet, but the dsp56300 Virus does allow Midi out from it. You are right though, it is only sending to the Midi output of my audio interface. So a loopback is probably necessary that way. They have changed many aspects of this in later versions of Logic and probably more in 11, but I can trawl through the Environment. This is all very different with Effects plugins, very easy.

 

Last edited: Jul 6, 2024

I proposed padshop becuse its shared VSTi, it's stock in cubase : )

thanks for your help

and dont forget that we are talking midi 100%

he started talking about QC which was confusing me at start, but QC are not related to midi, its a different animal, and I still think that the title is confusing

we are in the piano roll and MIDI CC world, so it's like being in the 1985 lol

as stated I used to have a midi virtual device AGES ago to solve this problem, now we enjoy the VST3 and midi learn function for every knob : )

we are talking about a false problem, its not a DAW problem but a VSTi problem: you need a midi hardware controller to assign CC numbers (unless the plugin has his own system like U.HE synths for example....but its not common)

you dont have a hardware midi to send CCs? Well you need a virtual one lol

PS: I am still sure that with certain VSTi there's a list ready to go of MIDI CC so the problem is solved anyway, but not in 100% of situations

 

Last edited: Jul 6, 2024

I think it is more of a workflow issue than a "problem". When I figured out that Latch method of writing CC automation data into every corresponding lane of plugins with visible controls I could move, Midi Learn kind of went out the window. Another reason I went back to mouse-only drawing automations is because I frequently have an analog synth on my desk instead of my KK S49. The only automation data it will send out are mod and pitch wheel.

 

ooohhhhh! finally someone is starting to understand where is the problem lol I can now confess that I feel like I am writing in arabic until now, because I feel that not all people are used to pure midi problems and routings but keep in mind:

once we are in the piano roll and midi CC world its all about midi

QC and control lanes out of the piano roll are NOT MIDI RELATED, its a different sport lol you guys mix the things

OsTirus is another good device that allows midi out! exactely and I also have it, if our friend has it we can use it as example, Padshop is not necessary, OsTirus is even better for the trick because it's "open"

and now I tell a secret: on Mac computer you probably already have a VIRTUAL MIDI DEVICE driver installed by default, I wrote already in other posts here lol so the problem for you is already solved lol

 

Last edited: Jul 6, 2024

nope, read my post above : ) do not mix pure MIDI with controller lanes please, its confusing

our friend wanna work inside the piano roll, so it's 100% midi related. Forget the lanes and think at the piano roll only

 

Patatern is correct. Midi loopback is the only solution for this. What you want to do for a clean workflow is get a software midi controller (onscreen faders and stuff) that send midi to the loopback, which sends it to QC or midi learn knobs. Yeah you can use ipads or whatever but it gets clumsy.
If you want continuous midi for lfos or envelopes there is lfotool by xfer or a free plugin by melda called midi cc generator.

 

somewhere in the original question there is often an epiphany waiting to be had.

I think the earlier mention of using the Generic Remote, is the better way to approach this. He already has this working, but https://archive.steinberg.help/cuba...t.html#remote_control_generic_remote_device_t

There are so many nice MFX plugins it's not even funny. Nearly full blown Sequencers on their own. I never send Midi Out of a VSTi (instrument plugin) to do some sort of modulations to another instrument plugin. If you use a MFX to do it, you can keep the piano roll open as long as you want. Otherwise this is where an External Instrument plugin comes into play.

 

Last edited: Jul 6, 2024

Ohh, ok. I tried using Cubase midi monitor but nothing showed up.

Ok, that's interesting. Now it makes much more sense

Wow, you're awesome sir!!! Thank you very much!!! I'm gonna test it out and see if it works.

 

Got it, thanks

 

Well,

I think I'm doing something wrong...



It only shows the midi notes, not he VI's knobs...

I can't figure out how to make the VI send signal to LoopMidi

 

Last edited: Jul 6, 2024

I assume that you sending "notes or any MIDI CC in realtime", it means tweaking knobs or playing piano keys from the VSTi with your mouse, not playing a sequence in cubase, in other words Cubase is in STOP condition.

I also assume you did the routing in the right way, so I ask

Does it show modulation and pitch bend?

PS there's another option: that particular instrument doesn't send MIDI CC, it wouldn't surprise me. Refer to the manual

 

Last edited: Jul 6, 2024

Very interesting discussion, thank you all!

It reminds me the "Environment" in Logic Platinum (Not sure: I think they have kept it in recent versions?).

Very rich, deep and sophisticated functionalities! You could add a bunch of buttons, sliders, switches, interconnect them (creating a dependency between objects, like a conditional... thing? Sorry I'm not a techie) and assign anything to them...

QC on Cubendo is functional for hardware, but it doesn't have the creative freedom Logic's Environment had... No need for any hardware!

I hope one day someone will develop something equivalent, but for Cubase!

 

I totally agree with you in the aspect of Cubase's QC. At the end, I just realized it wasn't posible and just stuck with the DAW's automation.