I'm contemplating starting up a new label, initially to self release things under as part of a project I have, but then to potentially release other people's stuff on too.

Anybody got any experience? Any helpful pointers, things to do/consider, ways to approach things, and so on?

 

Click the image to go to the video on youtube. She's a musician and lawyer.

 

Looked into it a while back, just for my own stuff. There are costs, small costs, but still costs. Basically, and especially if you're thinking of maybe signing others you need limited liability. So, in the UK you'd be setting up a LTD company. Simple enough, but there are legal necessities such as annual accounts, not a problem if this is going to be more than a hobby. And you'll need to protect your domain so you'll need to buy those. Here's a starting list https://imusician.pro/en/resources/guides/12-steps-to-start-a-record-label

 

back in my punk rock day, if you start a label dont release your own, you release your friend's (maybe artist that he found or his music) that also got a label so he can release yours (as an example), that's how you build a network. you'd start with bunch of physical copy of music, then trade with other labels and start growing your discography list and merch. start selling it, it will grow from there. there's a code of how trade works, with no currency involved rather the value of the release itself. An EP is worth 5 demos, singles to EP etc. That's stuff that you need to learn, it's fun and this is a game of politics where if you're greedy, people will stop trading stuff with you. So this is how you build reputation. making a label and self-releasing is a bit weird and can be considered "missing the point" in punk rock scene, at least to those that understand the whole concept of label networking. from there you start signing people that could get your friend signed by their friend, collab for compilation release. when things starting to moving nicely, you start signing artist that you genuinely like and make them grow while still doing everything you've been doing since beginning. basically starting a label is meant to be seen as doing it for people (or the community) not for yourself while you slide in your self interest once in a while for fun to keep things going. the most boring part of it is going to actual shows that you dont really dont want to go and meet label people, hang out, and build contacts. Idk how it works these days with streaming and people self releasing with own label but im a little conservative when it comes to that. My advice, first get at least one label contact, a friend that just starting up to trade favors and grow together. If you're thinking about starting a label for self-release... how about just send the demo to other label 1st and see how it goes. or you can just self-release it without a label, it wouldn't make a difference.

 

Last edited: May 16, 2024

Hey Bunford, long time no see, hope all is well. I 've been away for quite some time. Oly 's death was a shock, came back for condolences and stayed.
So, it can be a long conversation, a label means various aspects under one umbrella, i did co-own/co-manage an indie label from early 90s to early 2Ks (mind you the label is still active), one thing i can say quickly. Whatever you do, make sure you keep the publishing rights to your work. And find some reliable "service" that will collect those royalties for you, from sales, airplay, social media, etc etc.
Cheers

 

Last edited: May 18, 2024

hey taskforce,
i don't plan opening any label but i've always wondered how it works

what do you mean? as a label, keep the publishing rights of their artists? or as an artist with his songs?
if you want to you could tell more about your experience, like what was the biggest problem for you?
and perks, were there any?

 

Hi. I was talking about his own work. Publishing is the only possible "property" composers/lyricists/songwriters can leave to their heirs. Keep in mind that while i personally find owning other people's publishing rights a bit "dishonest" to say the least, it's a legal way to make money. Writers have to be aware of what their rights are, in order to put their signature in binding contracts without wanting to go kill themselves later on in the process... To keep it simple, publishing gives you the entire compositional rights to a song both music and lyrics. Typically artists who sign off a deal with a major label, it gives 'em just a percentage of the publishing rights as writers. This used to be around 12-12.5% for both the music and lyrics, tbh i don't know where it stands now. So owning the publishing to your songs, means owning (thus controlling) 100% of the compositional copyright to them. And to make it more obvious, it's not about what a song makes from sales streams etc, as it is released. Just imagine how many times a song never made it to be a hit, but then some years later another artist covered it and it became massive. Funny story, in the 80s PaulMcCartney and Michael Jackson were friends, made a couple of songs together. And then MJ asked Paul the odd question,"how do you have all this money, what do you do?" and Paul replied "i buy other people's publishing". To Paul's surprise, MJ soon went on and bought the entire Beatles publishing and that was the end of that relationship hehehe. Owning the publishing to a song gives you total control on present and future uses of it. So it's the Alpha and the Omega for any songwriter to be able to keep as much as he can the publishing to themselves.
The biggest headache of all was collecting royalties. Especially in the 90s. So, in our indie label as publicists, we had to sign a deal with a major publicist in order to be able to collect our artists' royalties so we never made 100% even if theoretically we could have the whole pie. I am aware that this not the case anymore and there are now independent companies that will collect all your combined royalties for you for a fee and that's how most people in the indie world should roll imho.
The other headache and why i couldn't stand it anymore in the end, is having to deal with people's egos and psyches. After ten years of working that thing, i can tell you for sure i came close to being a psychologist only without a diploma lol. And it's never music related you know, it's always about things like "why less money for the video clip" or "why do these guys get a better deal and we don't" and so on. More than half the people who release an album, get their egos high as a kite. Especially youngsters. It takes a certain degree of maturity to be humble and it's not often. Believe it or not i found after some years that it is usually the most successful who are the most humble.
Anyway, owning an active label is a big big subject and i only mentioned a tiny bit. I promise to come back with more on this.
Cheers

 

Hey @taskforce thanks for your reply!!
That was very clarifying and interesting too.
I knew MJ got the publishing rights from the Beatles i just didn't know that was how and why he did.

I have no experience dealing with labels, so everything that you're saying is kinda new to me.
So yes it would be very nice to talk more about it too.

Cheers mate!

 

Hey mate, hi.
Best thing to do if you are aiming high with your career, is to have a lawyer who specializes in music royalties and "music industry" rights law. Before i go into this though, i must clarify that by "aiming high" i just mean making a living from your musical work, in other words becoming a professional or semi-pro at least. To me and i must have said this before, at the very bottom the only difference between a pro and an amateur is that pros many times have to make compromises with their art/craft in order to make a buck whereas people who make their living from other jobs will always (at least theoretically) have the freedom to do what they please with their music. It's never about how good they are as musicians or whatever, i 've met too many -non pro- musicians that could play much better than a lot of pros. So aiming for fame or fortune or just a bigger audience as a songwriter or musician etc by means of creating a label and releasing your work or just signing to a label, immediately enters you inside the sphere of the pro world whether you like it or not and that's just how it is. If you want to swim, you will get wet hehehe...
So now that i got this out of the way, these lawyers don't come cheap but you always have the aspect of where to sign your name covered this way. After all, such a lawyer will only get paid once you are about to close some profitable deal or after you do so. Major labels used to have such "sharks" on a payroll 24/7. Back in '99 i signed a short term deal with the local Sony Records as a remixer -independent of what i was doing with my own label as co-manager and producer- and their woman lawyer was THE shark. Her authority was second only to the general director's and she would convincingly present the deal you are about to sign as the best thing that has ever happened to you haha. If i wasn't 33 at the time and adequately experienced, she would have bound me for 5 years working for peanuts. Lucky for me, i managed to revise the deal with some of my own terms and got a contract for 6 remixes for what is today 1500 euros each. One offs that is - no royalties whatsoever. My country's Sony director at the time, was very fond of my work and i could have extended my contract easily but all this happened at a time when Sony and BMG merged and soon everything changed, too many people were laid off and contracts fell off leading to a series of lawsuits. It was the beginning of the end of the industry as we knew it back then and it wasn't just local, it was global. Some years later Universal Music bought everything and everyone here. Right now Universal must control about a third of what's left of the global music industry which makes them all mighty in the "new brave" music world and the last standing giant, even if it's on "crouches" if you know what i mean hehehe...
So if you want peace of mind get a lawyer mate(s). They will cover the boring but very serious choir of working out the kinks in any contract deal you are about to close whether it's for your own label or you signing to another label. Also too many times indie labels became subsidiaries of other bigger entities be it indie or major.
Lastly, specializing in music law lawyers, depending on who they are, they might even help you in other ways too, because they might have acquaintances and friends in the music industry.
Cheers

PS: Mind you, never ever diss indie labels. For example, XL recs made their name with Prodigy and Basement Jaxx and later on they signed effin' Radiohead and White Stripes. Now that's some huge names here and they have many more under their belt.

 

How exactly did all of this change with the beginning of Big Streaming Era?

D. Hurwitz f.e., speaking about classics that it's changed very much indeed. Labels wouldn't even sponsor the recording anymore, I wonder what they do then... Give advertising? Make you noticed when your name is placed right near to some famous, respected ones,m

 

Spot on mate. That's absolutely what they do. Only a handful of artists may get a money advance to produce an album atm. And i'm talking pop acts at their peak like Dua Lipa, The Weeknd and so on. The rest will produce their music on their own. The good ones will do a decent job. If they also happen to have a good manager to book some gigs they will get by and make a buck or two. Long gone are the quadrillions of advances for a single album and let's not forget the video clips to accompany the singles from the album as well. In some cases they could easily cost much more than the album itself hahaha. Mariah Carey's '99 video for the single Heartbreaker cost 2.5 mil dlrs. Yeah i know, wtf hahaha. Even funnier, Mariah's "Glitter" album sold about 2 million copies worldwide. For any of us this would 've set us in luxury for the rest of our lives. But for Mariah's label meant a loss of 7 million dlrs! Just so you know, Mariah's contract was for five albums and she had already earlier in her career received an advance of a ridiculous 80 mil dollars! And i mean, even when it was all fine and dandy for the industry, you should have the fkin Aliens buying her albums in order to get revenue after that lol.
But excuse me for digressing, what the labels are now for the most part is what i call "Glorified Advertisers". And for most of what they do, they hire third party talent, usually none in-house.

 

If youre releasing only your own stuff, you could consider something like Bandcamp which makes it easy to upload, manage and sell your releases. This is what I've been doing the past year and it's been working out for me. I like to keep things simple and Bandcamp as a platform does exactly that. I have nothing to compare it to in terms of running an actual label, but for someone starting out releasing their music, I think it's great, even with it's limitations.

I opted to use Bandcamp after a friend who's been on the platform for almost a decade suggested it. He's released music professionally close to 20 years now, both on legit labels as well as Bandcamp, but he prefers Bandcamp simply because its direct to fan nature and he is solely responsible for what he releases, when he releases it and the amount he charges for his music. When he gets paid, he gets to keep nearly all of what he earns with the exception of small transaction fees, and without hassle of dealing with label politics. Recently he set a milestone for selling over 100k in sales on Bandcamp, this is over a 10 year period, but I think it's quite an accomplishment considering he's an independent artist. He's an amazing producer and has built quite a following in that time but the majority of what he earns is through Bandcamp.

 

Long time, no see indeed @taskforce All is well here. Hopefully all is good in Dagobah! It was indeed a shock and very sad, and out of the blue for the majority of us who knew nothing about it

At the moment I'm kinda just toying with the idea because many platforms and services seem to offer decent value for label subscriptions, including likes of Bandcamp. It is uneconomical for self releases obviously, but makes more sense if releasing other artists' stuff too. Plus, I've been into music scene and loved making music, going to gigs, events, and festivals, recorded in studios etc for best past of 3 decades now, so merging it all into a label sounds appealing.....when obviously being entirely realistic and envisaging the label becoming this huge behemoth of awesomeness taking over the World within a month!

 

Good to see you all well mate. And Aymat of course and i hope the same for everyone else. So yeah, just like Aymat said, Bandcamp is a solid platform, especially for do-it-all peeps in the music world. To me it's a good starting point and it may end up being all you 'll ever need. Personally i find the whole strictly digital distribution a bit irritating. But i'm old school like that, i always think of it as necessary evil haha. Plus i keep making vinyl releases everytime i can afford so, for 2024 i haven't done anything yet but i 'm a dad now (yours truly 58 yrs old fart became a dad for the first time 2 years ago haha) and my priorities have changed.
Anyway, i like my digital as well as analog releases too. Keeps me from getting bored after being in this for over 40 yrs haha. You know, different goals for different audiences for different media etc.
My first release was around 1989-90. The best advice (if any) i can give to someone who is keen on having a label even if it's strictly digital is one:
The only way to build an audience and fan base is to be on time with your releases! Maintain something like a single a month and 4 albums a year or if that's too much a single every 2 months and 2 albums a year and you will eventually become relevant. A steady presence with releases is what matters even if the material being released is not awesome every time, which is also understandable. Keeping a strict time schedule with releases shows you 're being serious about it and that's exactly the image you want to be selling. After all a label is an entity and not one person. And trust me on this, since i 'm the first one to have paid the price for procrastinating and being too picky and perfectionist with what i would release in the past.
Best of luck with all mate,
Cheers

PS: Maintaining a certain musical style across your label releases is a big plus. Deviations are necessary to keep variety but always under an umbrella even if it's a broad one i.e, house music or hiphop or rock etc. So for instance a house music EP could have a hiphop-ish track but a rock one wouldn't unless it's a remix or a crossover track with some collab etc. Also being able to accompany your releases with youtube etc videos, even if they 're very simple AI assisted ones, will help broaden your grasp, so to speak. Sight is a stronger more immediate sense and a release with a videoclip will always be a better one commercially than one with no video at all.

PS2: Irrelevant but i just saw, great comp you built there mate. Nice one!

 

Last edited: May 24, 2024