The Unheard of Rule of Dialing in Your Amp Sims

Discussion in 'Software' started by AudioEnzyme, Mar 27, 2024.

  1. AudioEnzyme

    AudioEnzyme Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2023
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    117
    This is pretty eye opening stuff for people struggling with amp sim levels & sounds- And not getting it right :cool:

     
    • Interesting Interesting x 3
    • List
  2.  
  3. Poiuy

    Poiuy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2020
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    19
    Although the level an amp sims gets is surely important for representing intended sound, the rest is freaking bullshit. The hotter signal(without clipping of course) you get from your interface, the better. Better SNR and everything. As for the rest of gain staging, that's what the fucking Input on the amps fore. Dial it down there, not on your fucking interface.
     
  4. Lois Lane

    Lois Lane Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Messages:
    4,847
    Likes Received:
    4,764
    Location:
    Somewhere Over The Rainbow
    Not really in my opinion, Poiuy. For instance, every tube amp that I've owned or played through reacts by how much gain I feed to the output. The higher the gain the more distortion and clipping, and so modeled amps should react the same way. If the input is really loud I can't turn up the gain to find the sweet spot!
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  5. Shiori Oishi

    Shiori Oishi Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2023
    Messages:
    253
    Likes Received:
    135
    17 minutes is a long time! Is it just gain staging before running the signal through the amp sim + a spreadsheet of optimal input levels per developer?
     
  6. Poiuy

    Poiuy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2020
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    19
    But that's' what the Input any amp sim has for! Too hot, turn it down. Not Gain - INPUT. Basically it's absolutely the same if you dialing the input down on the interface or on the the sim EXCEPT for SNR which will always be better the hotter the original signal is being received.
     
  7. xorome

    xorome Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2021
    Messages:
    1,175
    Likes Received:
    858
    AI summary:
    • The common advice to set the input gain high on your interface when recording guitar is incorrect for properly dialing in amp sims.
    • Amp sims should be set up to mimic the real-world signal chain of just guitar -> cable -> amp, without additional gain staging from the interface.
    • Diming the input gain on the interface essentially creates a pseudo-tube screamer effect that can negatively impact the accuracy and tone of the amp sim.
    • To get a more accurate representation of the amp sim, the input gain on the interface should be set very low, following the manufacturer's recommended levels.
    • The input gain on the amp sim plugin itself should then be adjusted to compensate for the low interface gain, based on the headroom specifications of the particular interface.
    • This approach results in a cleaner, more responsive, and more authentic tone from the amp sim, without the unwanted saturation and low-end muddiness.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  8. Poiuy

    Poiuy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2020
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    19
    So what the eff happens exactly if you do it the other way - The input gain on the amp sim plugin itself should then be adjusted to compensate for the HIGH interface gain ? I mean, your interface is not an effing Tube screamer, it doesn't cut lows and doesn't add harmonix. The video is misleading bullshit.
     
  9. AudioEnzyme

    AudioEnzyme Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2023
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    117
    Some seem to disagree
     
  10. AudioEnzyme

    AudioEnzyme Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2023
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    117
    Watch it again, there's lots of info there
     
  11. Lois Lane

    Lois Lane Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Messages:
    4,847
    Likes Received:
    4,764
    Location:
    Somewhere Over The Rainbow
    Let's agree to agree.:rofl:
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  12. Lad Impala

    Lad Impala Rock Star

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2024
    Messages:
    716
    Likes Received:
    383
    Location:
    In bloom
    isn't it recommended to adjust the input level/gain staging most analogue modelled plugins? (including non-amps)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  13. AudioEnzyme

    AudioEnzyme Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2023
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    117
    But this method seems to work like almost backwards, it's dope once you get it
     
    • Interesting Interesting x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Love it! Love it! x 1
    • List
  14. Audioguydaz

    Audioguydaz Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    75
    Gain staging. Get the guitar input nominal at the interface (good healthy level) and then attenuate after (in software) just before the guitar modelling stage. Turning down your interface input level to provide the desired level at the modeller is just plain wrong.
     
  15. rasape

    rasape Noisemaker

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2023
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    4
    I've found some very interesting sounds with my motu m4 's gain at 0, just playing with the input (not gain) of amp sim.
     
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  16. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    9,127
    Likes Received:
    6,367
    Location:
    Europe
    So, he's basically saying that the higher input level set by an interface makes the git amp emus sound bad, and that the higher input level set in the plugin makes it sound right? IOW, the higher digital level sounds more analogue than the higher analogue level? Er....
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  17. AudioEnzyme

    AudioEnzyme Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2023
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    117
    The idea there is somewhat controversial but looks like it works
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  18. xorome

    xorome Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2021
    Messages:
    1,175
    Likes Received:
    858
    I'm done with the watchbait threads. I need to keep some faith in humanity.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Love it! Love it! x 1
    • List
  19. clone

    clone Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2021
    Messages:
    7,538
    Likes Received:
    3,321
    exactly. "we've been doing this X wrong the entire time." This is why I always mention about these kinds of statements, people who throw their "resume" around when telling you something far-fetched, contrary to conventional, generally accepted principles. "i've been doing this for X years and ", ____ insert whatever bullshit you want in that blank. It is the preface to some bullshit, like saying "with all due respect" will preface something disrespectful.

    I'll watch more of it now that I bothered, to see how bad this is. But in one sentence I can tell you with nearly 100% certainty, it's wrong. Whatever it may be, it doesn't even matter what it is.

    Oh my word. So he is saying they overload the input trim as soon as it hits the plugin? It took you 6 years to figure this out and you make a video about it? lol.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2024
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  20. Granular

    Granular Noisemaker

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2023
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    3
    Yeah, this gain stage thing just popped up in guitar recording community. It was always recommended to keep the audio interface signal as hot as you can (without clipping) and lower the input knob on whatever analog emulating plugin you had. For the sake of Signal to Noise Ratio.

    This solution also seems backwards to me, what happens to the Signal to Noise ratio? You are basically lowering your signal with the noise, and then adding gain to both noise and the lowered signal then. Which I think has a little more noise in the signal, though honestly I can't really tell the StN ratios of audio interfaces are pretty good.
     
  21. Fireplace

    Fireplace Kapellmeister

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2019
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    50
    "Why your playing SUCKS"
    "You've been doing it WRONG"
    "The music secrets that THE PRO'S DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW"
    "Why rock 'n' roll sounds SO MUCH BETTER IF YOU TURN YOUR AMP ON"
    "OMG, this Liverpool band from the sixties is UNBELIEVABLE - NEW DISCOVERY!!!!!!!"

    Yawn....
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • List
Loading...
Similar Threads - Unheard Rule Dialing Forum Date
what I have to say that audiosex forum rules Lounge Mar 7, 2024
Doubts about forum rules Forum News and Updates Feb 28, 2024
Spotify's -14db LUFS Integrated rule Mixing and Mastering May 16, 2023
What's your 'Walk Away And Listen' rule of thumb re final mix/master? Mixing and Mastering May 11, 2023
TugGlicento, 2Rule’s powerful glitch-multi-effects plugin just got a v3 update Software News Jan 8, 2023
Loading...