Time 34:59

"They just sent me some shit from Spotify, where I got a billion streams, right? My publisher hit me. I said, 'Break that down, how much money is that?' That shit wasn't even $45,000. ... You see what I'm saying? So it's like, when this shit came out, I could tell an artist that same song that you put out traditionally that didn't make no money, give it to me. Every time you sell it if somebody else sell it you get 10 percent of it."

 

Last edited: Mar 9, 2024

i made music for free for years, its a blessing to make money from it. $45,000 is more than a lot of people make a year, around the world; working a job they feel theyre forced to do and dont like. he got it from clicks of music he was apart of decades ago, being played one billion times, around the world

i see it all the time with other artists in the industry. like how much money do you need? if you love making music, its more than enough from touring as a solo artist with a good sized fanbase, especially if you own your masters like he does - he has 1 Billion streams, people played his music 1 Billion times, why are you complaining? like i was doing this shit for free for years with like 15 fans, its silly. theres enough people out there who would love to not think $45,000 isnt shit

the only thing sad is the loss of perspective; theres a lot of talented people in the world, a lot of them dont make a living with their music - its always been that way , being able to make a living with it is fortunate

 

oh also i forgot to say before i leave, art has no objective value, it's all subjective. no one makes a song and is told, "thats worth $1000" - for a large portion of your journey, no ones asking you to make music, thats all your decision - youre not owed anything because you did something. sure it means more to us as artists, but to random people,they dont know whats a good price for it, because theres isnt one, in anything - films that were made for millions of dollars you can find in a bargain bin for $5 at some point

streaming isnt perfect; but as a music fan, its amazing - when i hear about how much older artists had to do to get people to hear their music, even how much it cost to get it recorded; or what older people had to do just to hear new music, when we can do everything from our rooms and (potentially) reach a lot of people. if money is all you care about, get a regular job

 

You completely miss the principle.
Unless the person really isn't a musician and cannot play an instrument and does everything on the computer, which really makes them a music programmer not a musician, people's time is worth being paid for. You do a days work, get a days pay. Nobody would work in a bar, a bank, or any job 9-5 and accept not getting paid.
He and earlier, his record label, paid people to work on his music. It has absolutely nothing to do with what anyone thinks any tune is worth. It has to do with exploitation, and if you cannot see that, maybe it might make more sense that you worked hard for what you have in your house, burglars come in and rob you, then sell it and then leave 10% of what you paid on your front doorstep.

It is legalized theft. The streaming does nothing other than host files. They did not pay for the engineer, the musicians, the producer or the mastering. If everyone believed as you do, soon there won't be any music at all because real musicians won't bother recording anything.
All you'll end up with is a bunch of 3rd rate musicians playing everyone else's music, or computer generated undynamic garbage with nothing new being created, and your attitude of Art has no objective value, typifies why almost every tune in the popular market sounds the same and why it is total garbage, however, you are right there. It has a less than zero value.

BTW, I raised family, paid out a mortgage from music. GET REAL. That is not only ignorant, it's bordering on stupidity.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Mar 9, 2024

Well as an up and comer myself, from my limited experience releasing music, more so from schooling and researching the subject, but also from having family involved in the music industry before streaming was a thing, I can breakdown what it typically looks like when somebody does get a sale/stream.

Streaming platforms pay what they want and do not disclose their formulas for calculating value.
Stores usually take 50% of a sale (and on top of that both of them sell advertising space profits of which are not shared with the artist)
Distributor takes 15-35% (Spotify owns Distrokid by the way, so again theyre ripping off artists on the distribution side to their own store)
Record label takes 50% (+ expenses/advances)
Studio mix/master points?
Co-publisher/artist/musician/team splits?
Management 15-20%
Lastly the original artist gets their cut, which is whatever if anything is leftover after everyone else gets paid. (Oh and you'll have to wait 3-12 months to actually see that money in your bank account)

"its always been that way" absolutely not, it wasn't always like this. I have a few friends who were mildly successful in the independent EDM arena that would regularly make several thousands of dollars for each song released on Beatport and other digital stores as well as CD and vinyl record sales prior to Spotify. They made mid 5 figure incomes from music sales alone, a livable wage to support their careers and families. That income immediately and almost entirely disappeared after Spotify, putting an entire generation of lifelong career musicians out of business. Effectively creating a world of mostly wannabe hacks, a small percentage of self funded die hard part time professional hobbyists, the occasional one hit wonder Spotify "lottery winner", and then we have the posterchild sponsored influencer major label fabricated 1% artists at the top taking 90% of the overall revenue. This income has never recuperated ever since the business model shifted to streaming and advertising sales not shared with artists going directly into the pockets of non musician tech thieves. And our governments haven't done a damn thing about it. Why? Because they get kickbacks, money into their pockets (see the Obama's involvement in all of this for just one example).

Seriously, this surprises who? Just goes to show how out of touch people and especially these mega stars really are.

I don't buy CD's either, but I do regularly buy high quality WAVs and vinyl directly from artists and small labels. Its the only way to truly support them, so they can make more music. I also will never use or distribute my songs to Spotify out of basic principle. I mean, I spend thousands of dollars on gear, pay rent, internet and electric bills, 100 of hours to make a few songs, why would I give it away to support and line the pockets of the people who devalued music and made it impossible for me to have a career or ever earn a poverty level income from my investment and creative hard work? What industry do the workers spend a small fortune on tools, countless hours of work, and not get paid? I cant think of any and when it does happen they strike until demands are met. What makes music less important, special or any different? Lets be real, without music the world would literally implode (and we're not far from it today). But despite all this artists still keep on sending their music to Spotify, 150,000+ songs per day!

Look at the history of Spotify and the owners backgrounds. Lifelong criminals. Each of the Spotify owners became a multi billionaire off the backs of ripping off artists. They'll pay Obama (who by the way endorsed the platform on the White House website no less when he was interestingly enough president of the USA when Spotify invaded and extorted the music industry into this mess), Rogan, Prince Harry and lots of other non musician idiots $ hundreds of millions of dollars for a few podcast episodes, even entry level non musician employees at Spotify are being paid upwards of $100,000 per year, but the artists whose music/fans this entire scam is all built around only get an unspecified $.0003 - $.005 cents per stream? Spotify is also using profits from artists to facilitate wars with their weapons manufacturing venture. I wonder how many of these a-list celebrity artist/activist types know about and support that? Literally, Spotify single handedly destroyed the independent recorded music industry and is now in the murder business. Its the biggest scam of the 21st century. How anyone, especially somebody like Snoop Dogg, doesn't not know this stuff by now is just


And don't tell me a live show is the answer because if that is what you think then you aren't really a touring musician. First of all, tours and live shows cost money, lots of it, to put on. From writing, recording, rehearsal to travel, lodging, food, gear, crew, merch, the actual performance and then getting to the next show or going home, there are numerous expenses. Most people actually pay to play and "work" at huge losses. The bigger the artist usually the bigger the production cost. So johnny come lately #1 hit song artist might get a $500k fee, but after everyone else gets their cut and expenses are covered, out of that they might see a paycheck in low five figures if lucky. Plus the market is highly oversaturated and because of this venues and promoters have a field day with underpaying (or even forcing pay to play schemes on) less than a-list famous independent performers. As it is, indies have no real bargaining power. You don't agree to their terms? No problem, theres another 10,000 hacks standing in line waiting around the corner that will gladly pay to play just for a few selfies to throw on their gram or whatever. Then what if you are a one man band, too young, too old, fat, ugly, disabled or whatever to be a nonstop touring posterchild or maybe you live in a remote location where there are no venues to perform or even hone your craft, then what? God forbid you should have a family, people relying on you to care for them, obligations and bills to pay. Please. $45,000. for a lifetime total of 1 billion streams is a one time payment, not a weekly, monthly or yearly salary. I can guarantee you he spent 100x more than that on the studio gear and time for all those songs. Wake tf up people.

Music is a choice? I wholeheartedly disagree with that statement. Why shouldn't I make money for my work that you consume and enjoy, like any other product or service in the world? For some of us, music and being creative isnt a choice, its in our DNA, an absolute, our purpose for existing in this universe. Why because music is fun and enjoyable it is considered by some not to be a "real" job? That is ignorant and absolutely ridiculous. Please do tell where you work this so called real job and when your products/services are freely and without recourse available to the masses? Delusional.

Quote of the day: "get a regular job"

 

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Their opening quote "I made music for free for years" - This makes them an AMATEUR. They should look up the actual definition of what a Professional is. They will never understand because it's obvious they have never been a professional.

 

I love Snoop's tracks, especially when he shuts the damn mouth and lets the music flow

 

musicians get paid a flat rate, ive played guitar or whatever on other artists tracks on major labels and got paid a flat rate - that is industry standard, youre not getting royalties, nobody is. labels (business) will still pay that, because a lot of money is being made. when you understand that, people get greedy

i know for a fact, from experience touring, with the size of his audience, Snoop could sell out mid sized venues with like 5,000 capacity and sell his tickets for cheap at $30 (which he wouldnt). he could do that for 20 days here in the states, and make almost $500,000 in one month after taxes and cuts. how many industries is that possible? where at that rate, you can make over $2million in 6th months? i know other artists, some bigger than me; and there making more than enough to live comfortable and work on their art; but its never enough - people are making way less for doing way more, thats my point, and hes complaining about streams, when hes already rich. how much money do you need in life?

and every industry has exploitive practices, thats called capitalism, its not exclusive to music;, any industry you can think of, majority of people are being underpayed for their work, while the industry makes a lot off of said work. the laptop im typing on was made by children in china getting paid almost nothing, who worked way harder than most musicians have on anything, teachers make very little for the importance of their job. its not theft, when theres no objective value for something. when you have a regular job, youre given an objective value for your time - music isnt that, especially at an amateur level - unless you get paid a flat rate, theres no set value for your song that isnt subjective

on top of that spotify isnt even profitable as a business itself, 250,000 songs are uploaded a day, most people dont pay and when they do, its $10, to listen to infinite amounts of music, from any era
https://www.wired.com/story/spotify-layoffs-music-streaming-future/

 

Last edited: Mar 9, 2024

Now you are just making shit up and rattling off unfounded disinformed absurd cliches and random xenophobia laced stereotypes because that is not how the industry or touring works, much less how global business in general works. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

You've just shown your inexperience - YOU were not getting royalties. Everyone I worked with did, as did I. Oh, and on two recent projects, if they do well, will get them too. That's how royalties work. If they sell, you get royalties and that's how it is supposed to work because otherwise, any percentage of nothing is still nothing.
Every musician I have worked with in western countries got royalties from anything recorded for sale. Major labels always paid them unless you signed something that said you didn't and only desperate people did sign them. Compositions that have been used of mine in film, I still get royalties from annually. Just because you do not get that it should work a certain way and you are happy being bent over, does not mean everyone else should.

 

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This old schtick again.

And yet they can afford mega million dollar high street offices around the world, $100k average employee salaries, numerous $300,000,000. single podcast deals, billion dollar annual owner cash payouts etc etc etc etc...

 

actually say something valid, all youre doing is disliking and throwing insults

 

It's profitable for Daniel Ek, not for anyone he made his billions riding on the back of.

EDIT: - Spotify lost billions when Taylor Swift removed herself. People are gradually wising up. The ones that aren't desperate i.e.

 

film and music are different, youre getting a flat rate for the track; that is the standard, unless its like a major part of the song and you want composition credit i can see that - but A LOT of people are playing parts, making beats, etc. for flat rates, thats whats normal. having your music licensed to a movie that you have composition rights on is a different story

its the standard because majority of the time, you make more from the flat rate for a certain amount of time, then the percentage of royalties you would get; especially if they dont own the rights to the music

 

i dont work at spotify, im only speaking on what i know, thats what they say; the numbers match from reports. i dont know how they run business; but it makes sense, you can take out loans and leverage, etc.

idk tbh, it doesnt seem sustainable though. especially to pay everyone a bunch of money for a listen

 

You do understand the difference between intellectual, mechanical and performance royalties???? Obviously not.
If you did, you'd know that what you just said is completely wrong. It is not normal what you suggest.
YOU make the same. Not a LOT of us here. Nobody I work with and associate with in the professional arena does. Only engineers get a flat rate in the areas I work in, both composition and performance.
You've just told me what circle you are NOT in. And no, you would not know because I seriously doubt you are good enough. Making beats??? Oh dear... Yep, you deserve to get no royalties because a lot of it is made from other people's work and samples of other people's creations. Do you even play an instrument?

 

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she is the #2 artist in the world on spotify, no shit - making a bunch of money doesnt equal being profitable, you can still make a lot of money while losing a lot of money at the same time - though none of us work there, so its all assumption

 

Did an electronic musician fuck BasSDuDe's girl or something? Nearly every thread I see him in, he's bitching about computer music, elevating himself for playing "real" instruments... It's so funny and pathetic. We get it. You're the real deal (i.e. the kind of musician who deserves to get paid).

 

i definitely know what they are, and i also know most artists arent making enough off their music alone (which is the whole point of this thread correct?) so thats why its standard to just get a flat rate

but its also a large industry, if its classical music or jazz, thats probably different