Here's my latest "finalized" work.

Feedback appreciated, especially from fans of the genre. I'm sure I broke an unspoken cardinal rule or two here :D

 

Personal invitations:
@triggerflipper How can it be without you, mate.
@aschnt You asked about the latest - here it is.
@No Avenger Somehow feel like inviting you too.

 

Love the part that starts at 1:30, I would personally use that as a main theme, feel like parts before and after it are like different tracks, maybe too much variation, dunno, probably I'm not used to hear that much variations in EDM, everyone just stick to one for a track, build up to it and out of it.

As far as genre go, this is in my opinion neither Melodic Techno or Progressive House, sounds more like a Indie Dance.

Overall, this is my cup of tea, I'm sucker for retro sounding EDM.

Here's something you might enjoy

 

Last edited: Jan 13, 2024

Hey mate !
That's a nice track indeed ! Love the way melody & synths evolve, very good transition at 1:20 and very nice combination with the arp (beginning around 4:35). Also love the monotone one slowly building up around 5:25, nice detail.
A few thoughts:
° Maybe the "kinda pad" could have been a bit more present to shift a bit more the attention over it, then go to the actual melody transition, but that's just detail. I think this helps giving an impression of breaking the repetitive nature of the style of these tracks.
° Playing with sidechain, if not all track long just here and there could have been a plus too. The clap is very faint in some parts.
° And finally, feels like you could also have played with tracks levels to bring even more life to the whole piece.

But overall very nice ! Punchy and crispy one ! for sharing

 

Wise decision.

I basically agree with @Melodic Reality and @aschnt. My first thoughts were that transition at 1:30 sounded, err, uncommon and I would've mixed the whole thingy in a more traditional way. More low end in the (more upfront) kick, dry (more audible) HH, one main theme at a time and the second melody in the background (maybe different pan), all in all less loud and less high (sizzle) freqs, just more like retro analogue 'rough' mix.
However, the basic tracks are good, I assume it took more than an hour?

 

I do like the idea of the song, but I it's not enough for 6 min - it would be ok for 3min or so. I like the intertwining melodies.

 

Like it, I would add come other items in the middle like voice ecos, and polish the beginning and the end of the track

 

It's great.

 

Had a bit of an oldschool feeling, I liked it. That really high sparkling twinkle synth was a bit harsh on my headphones mostly at the end when other sounds were taken away.

I make somewhat similar tracks and have uploaded zero. So I feel bad being critical.

 

Thank you! Thank you all very much!

The intro was supposed to cement that bowed synth in a static and dark context, only for the actual track to rip it from under it and create an entirely different context around it. Everything from 1:30 onwards is actually one chord progression, I just add steps to chords. Only change it a bit for when the bells come in for real. (Bells, man : () I loved how it changes entirely despite being completely the same.

Isn't Indie Dance about guitars tho? Anyways, my references, so to say, were works by Stephan Bodzin and Ticon, hence Melodic Techno and Progressive Trance.

Actually tried to deliberately avoid the pumping effect, cause didn't like it. Also pondered not having clap at all thoroughout the whole track. Settled on a deliberately faint one.

A lot of that is actually going on, but with the opposite intent :sweat_smile: Tried to make it *feel* as if the whole time everything is on the same loudness despite all the compression and things come and go.

Yeah, I wanted it to be loud and not pumping, so I set up a multiband sidechain and compressed the lows on a master bus in a way so that you hear mids from the subs all the time, but mostly feel the low end of the kick. Yeah, in subs region, kick is very prevalent as it is, so I'd have to make it quieter overall if I wanted even more kick, and I'm uncomfortable mixing below -6 LUFS :sweat_smile:

I intuitively go with darker mixing myself, but repeatedly, when I checked against the references, my mixes were uncomfortably darker and duller, so I'm trying to figure out high frequencies for now. Personally I'm happy with highs, except for the bells. Bells, man : (

That's just how the genre is - the same idea for 7 to 9 minutes, with gradual, not as much as evolution, but rather formation. Personally I love to spend more time with the ideas I like, I'd rather listen to a single 7-minute track once, then for a 3-minute one two times in a row.

Have no access to voice, and yeah, not entirely happy with the intro (doesn't convey the feeling I wanted as good as I wanted) and the polish of the ending. Bells, man : (

Thank you!

Yes. Bells, man : ( I did *a lot* to them, but it seems my sounddesign skills aren't good enough yet to create bells that aren't harsh in the end. I'm working on it.

No, do be critical precisely because of that! I'm still learning new things. And post your works too.

 

Don Corleone, I am honored and grateful...

Anyways.

I think there are some really nice ideas in there, but it feels like you have not mastered the genre(s) yet

To bounce off of what was already said :

-Duration : I don't think it's too long, it could even be longer. However, the arrangement needs more balance between the gung ho inyourface parts and the (imo lacking) silent parts. If there were some bars where you take out all the arpeggios and stuff, and just let the kick and bass breathe along (imo lacking) atmospheric pads or whatnot, the structure would immediately become much more engaging.

-Sound design : Overall good quality, but one thing that bothered me was when the synth line at the intro suddenly became 4x more busy (before the transition at around 1:30). Divide and distribute the notes to different synth sounds, octaves etc. like you do later on, and the part will become much more organic IMO.

Still on the same topic more or less, where the fuck are your dub delays? Lol, the first thing that came to my mind listening to the intro was "it's a gosh darn shame that he didn't use delay here". Like, let the phrase play once, then have your chosen delay repeat it over two bars with filtering etc. It will add tons of space, both regarding the arrangement (less busy means more breathing) and the mix.



Last point on the same topic, more delays and pads man. You're adding some later on, but I WANT MOAR.

Think of it this way : in this kind of music, if you want the busiest parts to really be uplifting, elating etc. they often need to come after sparser parts, and pads drenched in reverb are essential, because the music itself feels like it's taking a deep breath before exploding in a million colored suns.

Maybe I'm too fond of 90s Goa Trance, idk


Regarding the pumping sidechain thing, have you tried spectral compression? Since I've started using smartcomp 2 for sidechaining I haven't looked back, and unless you push the parameters to the extreme, you don't get any pumping effect.

Ok, can't help myself, so I'll say one final thing about sound design : you can go 2x harder with filters. You mentioned Bodzin, one if his signature sounds (and, if we're being honest, of 40 billion other techno producers) is arpeggios with filter movement over long periods, including the filter's ADSR.

There is some of that in your track but to me it feels like you were afraid of overdoing it, so I say go waaaaaay harder with it. Try different filters, high resonances etc. at different dry/wet ratios. Sometimes what theoretically seems over excessive works just perfectly.

Other than that, I have good things to say too, but I gotta go get my anus bleached. Maybe another day

 

No way man, how could you tell? :D
Gonna be honest I'm bad at humane music and even worse in following genre conventions.

:D
"Quiet" transition where the mid sound goes under the filter was added when I realized exactly that that :sweat_smile:

That was the point, but I agree with the sentiment. I'm not entirely sure how to properly create the intro with my idea, it's possible that the idea doesn't fit the intro at all. Then again, maybe I just need to build up my name so it will all sound experimental, bold and visionary and not just amateurish :D

Riiiiigt :sweat_smile: In my defense, this is melodic techno. I swear I use them, the Battletech-inspired track is my proof.
Pads did not fit the idea I was going for outside of the aforementioned "quiet" moments.
So the ambiance is lacking. Got it.

I think Pro-MB does fine, no? This track doesn't pump.

Please elaborate in as many detail as you want, maybe even in direct conversation. Seriously.

B-b-but this is what I did here....
Guess it feeds into the previous topics. Not enough tension and release, not enough movement, not enough ambiance.

Oh, another thing I forgot.

Yeah, a little bit more :D

 

Indie Dance is mish mash of genres, some of the D-Nox & Beckers works fit into it, probably some of the Ticon's 2AM album would too, there are blurred lines between genres, sometimes just style of the track can push it towards one or another. Bodzin also combines lot of influences, so it's not really clear cut representative of particular style. But in all fairness, whole genre classification is hit&miss, folks are experimenting with different influences on different tracks, sometimes some sub genre get popular and there's influx of people who are trying something new there or commercial aspect reshape whole genre. What was once progressive, now is relabeled deep and so on.

Start of your track could very well be in Bodzin's style, but you then shift to different style and finish up with something like Becker's meets Ticon's 1987 arp line. But again, who really cares, if the music is good, it's good, worst thing one can do is to limit his creative output to fit particular umbrella, even today you can find same act under few different genres, one track is under melodic techno&house, than other under progressive house, than other under indie dance, than other under deep/raw trance, just because they threw few influences from other genres.

 

I am nowhere near competent enough to comment upon your track sir.

I do like it. It kinda reminds me of the simplicity of 'KRAFTWERK-THE ROBOT' flowing into DAFT PUNK - THE TRON LEGACY'

A Nostalgic moment from the past laying the sound of the future.

Wish you a great musical future & Thanks for the Share

 

Last edited: Jan 14, 2024

Bullseye! Yes, Less is More and 1987.
As a sidenote, do you by chance know how to recreate the bells from 1987? They're far less harsh than mine, and that's not just attack, is it?

Right back at you!

 

im not an expert but my two cents are:

-Isnt the lead a little bit loud?
-kind of old school vibes
-did u sidechain the kick? remember the kick its kind of always the king on these.
-something about the bass its not right...

for me its a good song that i can enjoy one time, riding my bike :D

 

Thanks for sharing your work! I like it quite a bit!

 

That's fine dude, maybe I'll send you my first attempt at techno some day. I tried to cram so many ideas in 8 minutes it sounds like plunderphonics -and two demo versions that sound quite different because of OMG I JUST GOT THIS IDEA NOW AND IT WOULD BE A SHAME IF I DIDN'T MAKE SOMETHING OF IT.

Self deprecating humour aside, techno is, at its core, a middle finger to conventions (and trance is that middle finger caressing the clit of the counter culture).
Of course 40 years later it's as anti-establishment as The Simpsons are today, so any tutorial you'll watch will tell you "intro = x bars, buildup = x+y bars, drop = (x+y)^z bars" but fuck em, eh?

(also even though I was born with a purple onion I don't identify as a man)

Don't be scared of making looooooooong intros. If anyone gives you shit for it you can just say this track starts a 2 hour DJ set lol.
Joking aside, Bodzin himself has intros that last way longer than 8 or 16 bars in his live sets. But the absolute gods of long intros are Minilogue (although it isn't melodic techno, this album is an all time masterpiece -also check their trance project Son Kite) :

When in doubt, let an idea loop infinitely and see where inspiration takes you. Jam along. Again, this is techno. Everything goes.

Even at barely audible levels ambient does A LOT for tech/trance.

As an alternative to pads, try Zynaptiq's Adaptiverb. If you don't know it, it's... words can't do justice actually lol.
Let's just say it's a reverb that can take the reverb signal and re-synthesize it and then harmonically filter the reverb tail so no clashing notes linger on... it's one of the most unique plugins ever IMO, and it can transform a single melody into an ambient album

Oh I didn't mean your track pumps, I was referring to the conversation you were having with No Avenger, and proposed spectral sidechaining as a more transparent, zero pumping alternative (what you achieved with Pro-MB is clean too).

Trackspacer is probably the most commonly used one, but I like SmartComp 2 better. People also use MSpectralDynamics and Soothe 2 for it.

On the other end of the spectrum, should you want pumping sidechaining, one technique I've seen people use to great effect is to add an envelope designer plugin like Shaperbox 3 or Gatekeeper on the mix bus and sidechain the kick into it so the entire track goes silent for a few milliseconds and the kick slaps you in the face

Ah, man. I.. erm.. how do I elaborate... BOOM BOOM BOOM heartbeat AAAAAAHHHHH breathe in BOOM BOOM BOOM DJIN DJIN DJIN orgasm?

I guess it comes back to the feeling I got : you restrained yourself for fear of overdoing it, but in electronic music you gotta overdo it first so you'll know when to pull back. Kinda like when I do consensual non-consensual play with the guy who sells gas station weed at my local grocery store.

Edit : one thing I didn't mention in my original comment, and that another comment touched upon is that the bass could use some higher overtones -what I mean is I'm hearing the fundamental nice and clear, but somehow it doesn't satisfy me completely, kinda like when I do sexy ASMR play with the guy who sells... alright alright calm down, me.

Maybe some light FM, maybe some detuned unison above 100hz, maybe both, maybe anything else that feels nice to you

 

I liked the melodies and i liked the choices you made regarding the synth tones. Gives a really oldschool trance vibe that i love.

My personal impressions on things that i'd like to hear from this track:

A more clubbey/smile face filter would bring a sort of depth and impact on this track, because i feel that the midrange on the synths is kinda overlapping the groove and i'm not feeling the subsonics and the treble that generaly pumps up this kind of music. If you're going for a more oldschool route which i believe to be the intention, the drum kit and some leads could be a little bit dirtier (some bitcrushing, akai drive, digital degrading - NOT TOO MUCH PLS) to transpose the listener to some psychoacustical experience that most of the electronic beats on the 90's had. Of course, a clean, in your face, is always welcome if that's you're style. And parallel compression on the snare to feed it more without raising voltage. The sound itself it's good, but i'm not feeling it on the overall balance you made on the arrangement.

 

Only until all the other instuments come in at the same loudness :D
The thing is, two main "competing" instruments have different attack and release behaviour, so they don't really compete when playing at the same time, and the bells arp is like two octaves higher than everything else, so you can hear four (including bass) "main" lines at the same time without them clashing.

I did, in the stealthiest way I could. I like it when the kick is more felt that heard.

Thank you for giving it a listen! Glad you liked it!

That "man" was an interjection. Kinda like here:

Gonna keep it in mind for the future tho.
Being serious for a moment, I don't identify myself, and in fact I'm somewhere between questioning and denying the concept of self-identity, cause the process, by my observations, is based more on what people *learn* (aka stereotypes) than on what people *feel* about themselves.
I'm not against a discussion, if you'd want, but in DM. For now back to music.

Been looking at indecisively it for quite some time now.

Honestly that didn't help but thanks :D

Naah, I just didn't think of it more than a transition. My mind is a little a lot mathematical about music, I'm just learning to introduce FEEL™ into it.

I wanted the basses to be deep and dark. They do have *some* overtones, to imitate analog sine, but that's it. Again, like basses to be more felt than heard.

There's a very complicated reason I didn't go for it, and that reason is as follows: smiley made bowed synth suck. And if I smiley everything but this synth, it sticks out like a sore thumb and the balance between leading instruments falls apart.

Not intentional at all actually, that's just where my sounddesign skills and knowledge of the genre are at the moment.

As I said, I considered not having the clap at all, cause it detracts from the feeling I wanted. It's intentionally underpronounced, just there to be there, and I then also use it to give some feeling of rhythm and a logical ambiance to transitions.

Yeah, it seems I didn't create a dance track at all :sweat_smile: