How can this chord (Cmaj13#11) be tonic? It has lots of dissonant intervals between its notes waiting to be resolved.

 

That`s a rather convoluted way to distance yourself from the fact that you`re saying bullshit. I`ll rest now troll, you got me.

 

You know well that my last comment to you contains the answer ( which has been stated about 5 times now )
My question to you is why are you wasting your time and my time behaving that way ?

For the sake of anyone else who read it all those times but still genuinely does not understand...

First, each function is a gradient from relaxed to tense .
The tonic function most tense chords are where the Subdominant starts its tension.
the Subdominant most tense chords are where the dominant function starts its tension.

next,


A chord symbol says absolutely nothing about what is played.
Each chord symbol gets turned into many hundreds of totally different voicings.

And each voicing has different note spacings.


Take Bmin7 BDF#A
Add C in bass

C B D F# A

( experiment with which particular Bmin7 voicing.

That spells Cmaj13#11.

Take a F#min7b5 / C
There are so many ways to spell bigger chords it is nuts .
Take C6 in drop3 stack a D6 in drop 2
That is a Cmaj13#11.

The larger the chord the vastly more ways to play it .


{ Cmaj13#11}

Absolutely says nothing about what is played .

C E G B D F# A

Is D F# A a crazy tension which needs to be resolved?
Nope just Dmaj triad .

Well , play C maj spread triad with C in bass with tons reverb now play Dmaj triad in high register
( so both combine )

A { Cmaj13#11}
Does NOT mean everything is played all together!

* no chord symbol means all notes must be struck at once .

You familiar with strumming a open chord and plucking notes?
Strum C chord play D ring

That is Cmaj9
Play open C chord play high F# that is
Cmaj13#11.

There just so many ways to play a chord symbol

The chord symbol is representation of information
NOT telling you something specific to play .

Say we having a conversation about
( automobiles) * the topic

That says nothing about what particular sentence i response with or which letters are in it
I could say " 1955 dodge " or " McLaren F1 "

How could those completely different things mean the topic { automobile}¿
That is just like a chord symbol in music .
It is a topic .

 

Last edited: Dec 31, 2023

No it doesn't. Anyway if you think your answers are the ultimate power and keys to open the sealed fate of all theoretical discussions, I don't insist more. Happy new year ...

 

Cmaj13#11 stack (I don't even call it a chord) can not be tonic unless you disregard a lot of history behind the music of ... .

Finish!

 

I just said suppose Adam made a good video about the wrongful beliefs in the unfair dismissal of #4 or b5. Why does he not make any music online to show what he believes from his theoretical approach and teaching methods in his mind?

People usually show their beliefs in their acts. Acts can show how he treats the music theoretically. Please don't insult me this time and ask that guy my question.

 

ignoring the trolls profiles now. poof gone.
if they ever learn ethical interactions by means of integrity ,honor and dignity i'll speak to them again. ( not holding my breath)

 

the 5th interval is the most consonant interval after the octave

start with C add a 5th higher G add a 5th higher D add 5th higher A add fifth higher E add fifth higher B add fifth higher F#

the most consonant 7 note chord
CGDAEBF#

* you telling me you don't understand the ccircle of fifths information either? haha

Cmaj13#11

the most consonant 7 note chord
CGDAEBF#

now, instead of being beligernt i want to do build this in your daw .

listen to it!
stop saying demonstrbly absurd and wrong things here.
every single bit of information shared on this thread is not only demonstrable , but is understood by the best musicians of every generation, pick your favorite composer start paying attention to their compositions. this is ridiculus .
always a couple clowns show up to argue beginner level information lol :D
* well 2 clowns. out of thousands of views.

 

C and F# always make #4 no matter in which octave they are placed. 4# is the most dissonant interval among all the available intervals. If you have this interval in any combination, that combination automatically becomes dissonant. No matter what you do, you cannot make tonic chord from this combination.

To solve this problem to have a playable scale (which sounds good all the time), the theorists of the past centuries suggested that the expansion of notes based on a perfect fifth ends at the note B, and instead we go back down from the note C by a perfect fifth to reach the note F. In this case, the tonic note with any other note in the major scale will not have an augmented fourth or a diminished fifth interval. And only notes B and F will have this interval, which does not cause a problem for the tonic note.

 

This is the most important level of music theory. If this level is not understood correctly, the subsequent ideas will be accompanied by costly mistakes and colossal misconceptions.

 

hahahahaha it has to be foster...... sunna is FOSTER the ancient ignoramus.....like a christian he just wants everyone to believe the same diatribe as he does......bbbbllleeaaa c c h h

 

MMJ don't play devil's advocate. If you have anything constructive to be added to your own thread, do it. I'm waiting to hear and raise my knowledge. But if not, don't act up like this.

 

As much as I admire your tenacity Jacq, I remain confused why you persist in answering a question that nobody asked. As I have discovered, most of the members of the community are not interested in advanced music theory. And I suspect that anybody familiar with advanced music theory knowledge would find your explanations somewhat perplexing. @BaSsDuDe has a Doctorate of Music (specifically jazz related) and might be interested in debating your approach, but most of us have scant use for the ideas you present. I know from the past you will disagree, but trying to provide the kind of help you offer is, shall we say, pearls before swine.
But if it pleases you, then I am not one to dissuade you from something you believe to be important.

 

The tonality is related to romantic and late romantic music. Modern music that emerged in the early 20th century does not work with tonality. Because so many different ideas were added and the course of the music theory changed. I don't think it is right to express our new ideas as tonality. Every idea has its own place, but mixing different ideas and including them in a tonality container only causes complexity and confusion.

Tonality is a very delicate matter, and if it is not expressed with complete delicacy, it will cause tangled knots and it cannot be undone easily. I admire MMJ's attempt but I implore him to avoid mixing different ideas.

 

funny joke .
hah
hah
ha hah ha.

that would be like me asking " why were you born magic max? Although i admire that you toy around with music as a gag , nobody asked to to be born onto this planet. so why , why were you born?"
hah
hah
ha hah

(8 bit robot 80's toy programmed laugh)

trust. it isn't possible for you to dissuade me from anything.

*would you like tosee my clown bones collection? .. right this way...

 

Last edited: Jan 2, 2024

C Maj13#11 is a combination in G Major Bebop, D dominant Bebop and G Dominant Bebop. I don't know maybe it can be explained with these scales.
Or maybe modern tonality's plate is chromatic scale.

Notes out of traditional scales (major, minor) in chord structures are not easy to be explained and subject to multi-interpretation.

 

let's play a musical game going back and forth creating something inspired by what the last person made.
we each go back and forth.

anyone can participate.
you go first to set the stage.

 

you gave yourself away foster!
no more get to play silly post modern troll game (bye bye )

* for everyone else. a fun side game...

pick the name of a composer you believe didn't use #11ths on major chords(dominant falls in that category as well)

we can then pull up there compositions :D

*bonus!*

take a C bassline (spelling Cmaj triad

now for chords and melody play cadences from key of Gmaj

D7/Gmaj7 * over Cmaj in bass

Gmaj/Emin/Amin/D7/ * over Cmaj in bass

to create Cmaj13#11 material

play melodies you know for the next brightest key

*this works for all keys.

the diatonic notes of the next brighter key are the tonic notes of the key you are on.

all white keys spell F major tonic function.
Fmaj13#11
FCGDAEB

(stacking in fifths)

stacking in 3rds

FACEGBD

Fmaj + Gmaj = Fmaj13#11


take any major triad add a maj triad wholetone above to get the extensions.

take any min triad and add min triad a wholetone above to get extensions.

 

Last edited: Jan 2, 2024

What kind of tonality practice is this? Your twisted tonality reminds me of Polytonality or Polychord, Upper Structure, etc.

Hapless tonality! What troubles have come to you! Everyone who has gone by has kicked you in the face and now no one knows you anymore.

 

I appreciate that you hold me in high regard.

In this thread, I decided to step away and try and see it from Jaq's perspective of relaying information, rather than taking a stance of right or wrong. He approaches it differently. BTW even though it requires a convoluted plethora of comprehensive accurate research and study, a Doctorate is still a piece of paper.
As an example - While I may take say a Cmaj13(#11) as automatically Lydian or a C13(#11) as automatically as a Lydian Dominant, Jaq looks at it from the related notes perspective from either where it comes from, where it is going to and how it interrelates to a starting point. It's not necessarily wrong, just a different approach. There is no one way to do anything.

LAST - As for whether he is right or wrong, simply - It is his thread. If I want to elucidate anyone if I feel I have something to offer what the community wants, I will definitely open my own thread. Thanks buddy for the kind words but I decided after Jaq and I arguing unnecessarily for many years, to NOT argue and only add something useful to the thread so it does not get derailed with unnecessary squabbles. I know what I know. I do not need to prove it to anyone.