Hi

I have just got a Roland TR-8S and am trying to record its audio in Ableton Live Suite 11.3.4.

No matter what I try be it connected via USB connection or MIDI Din connection there is a very annoying offset in the printed audio on the track which makes the track out of sync with the metronome and VST instruments.

I have tried using track delay and Midi Clock Sync delay but nothing seems to get the audio bang on.

After doing some research its seem this is a very common issue with the TR-8S but I am yet to find the answer on how to fix this, its so annoying.

I am sure one of you great people has got a TR-8S and are using it very happilly with Ableton.

Before anyone asks about PC spec I have a monster machine which is only 2 months old

Dual i9 13900 KS CPU 48 cores
96GB DDR5 5600Mhz Ram
3x 8TB M.2 drives
Focusrite 18i20 3rd Gen

Thanks

Storm

 

I do not have a tr-8, but i have used many a roland groovebox recording sync'd to daw. the issue you are probably running into is that when you begin playback/recording of the tr-8, the midi data takes some milliseconds time to trigger that midi events on the tr-8. Then some more milliseconds for the audio to return to your audio interface and be recorded. This is not Plugin Delay Compensation needed, it is External Instrument Latency Compensation. If not setup that way, you will end up having to edit every audio clip you record with your microscope or it will drift against the timing of the other material in the DAW.

It is similar to using a Round-Trip Ping measurement when using external hardware effects. You should have an External Instrument Plugin or Device in Ableton, on a midi track; where the Midi file with the data goes. You have an audio channel record enabled and armed, and when you begin playback of the project, the external device will play back and be recorded into the new audio track. MMC or MTC (midi machine control and midi time code) really cannot be used for this, accurately; because you would want the groovebox to be the Master but cannot do this because the master has to also be the clock source.

If you want to make a pattern using a hardware devices internal sequencer, you can record the midi into the DAW, and then trigger playback of that midi from there. Maybe you can figure out a more convenient way to do it, because this is always annoying either way.

 

Hi Clone

appreciate the reply.

you are spot on with the playback delay of triggering the TR-8S you can see it as soon as you start recording.

I have the plug-in compensation ticked should I remove this? I have the audio one ticked too.

Just so I understand this correctly.

1. I need to create the drum pattern on a midi track from within Ableton using the External Plug-in device triggering the sounds in the TR-8S

2. Create a new audio track armed and ready to go

3. play back the Ableton midi data track which triggers the sounds in the TR-8S which then gets recorded in the armed audio track?

is this right?

so there is no way to create the pattern in the TR-8S and record this in sync on an Ableton audio track?

thanks so much.

 

I don't use Ableton, so I tried to leave it as non-specific to any DAW. You can record a Midi pattern from the external device to the computer, and play that back at the external device. Or you could just load some other drum midi files into the DAW. You just have to make sure the notes being triggered are the matching Octave the tr-8 has sounds assigned on, or you will not get any sounds being triggered.

You can see what each Latency/Delay compensation does just by doing a few trial and error recording passes. If you record a couple of test measures, then cut it and loop it; you will notice the differences. With the incorrect Latency compensation settings, it won't loop right. You will get a click, or a stutter.

Making a pattern on the TR-8 would be ideal. The problem is your DAW is just receiving the audio in, so it cannot do any calculation of the Latency and make adjustments for it. It's like if you pick up a guitar and just start playing the audio in. The total Latency it will advance the record time, is from when the Midi data begins to leave the DAW, until the audio is captured at the DAW's input. It's usually way below 1 second, but it is enough to make a lot of microscope waveform editing required. Unless every pattern you record starts with a transient note on 1.1 to make editing easier.


The general idea behind MTC/MMC sync, is that when you arm the recording device and press play on the TR-8; it sends an MMC message of Start/Stop to the recording device to begin playback and then they remain synced to the MTC clock source. Because they both have the start button "pressed" at the same time.

It's just a few concepts to get a working grasp of, but it is applicable to almost any external hardware with it's own internal sequencer. It will make it clearer what you are trying to do. It can be pretty confusing at first, especially with delay compensation confusion and second guessing at the same time.