Fair enough. You seem to forget that complex and avant-garde doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. It depends on the point of view. From the perspective of an experimental jazz pianist, Dan's music may be average. From the perspective of average joe, it might be totally crazy stuff. Measured against the average mass-produced music, Dan's music is complex avant-garde.

 

I like Dan's music. Not to the point of going out of my way to hear more of it, but it's pleasant. Chris' music... I'll go to considerable lengths to avoid

 

We'll have to agree to disagree. Pop music is super sonically complex these days. Most of these current pop producers were poached from experimental electronic / beat-making circles they cut their teeth in, and you hear the influence in modern productions. Dan doesn't hold a candle to it

 

I'm fine with that.

 

Thank you. So I've either stopped listening hard enough after spotting that one or the differences really are subtle enough to fly by undetectable. There's worth keeping a copy of Kirchhoff EQ either way. It's not as if we have to choose only one.

 

You can do the same by putting a soft clipper with 0dB ceining onto your master bus and mixing into it, while trying to stay as clean as possible, no?

I will completely honestly tell you that his music is good. You just have to engage your upper cranium and follow it knowingly. It's like a book. If that kind if listening experience is not for you then it's okay, I guess, but it has substance, unlike that feelsy normies music like pop and rock and whatevs. As a mixing engineer and amateur composer, I very much enjoy his production, sound design and chord progressions.

 

Last edited: Jun 19, 2023

that's the thing, you won't clip at 0dbfs equivalent outside of digital realm, the signal itself won't clip on its own, analog headroom allows you to work above that (if you want to hit certain gear really hard) or the opposite like how you'd reamp a guitar signal (bring down the volume to instrument level) and you just have to bring it down/up to proper volume before it hit the converter so it won't clip or too low in amplitude. There's no ceiling for analog signal only hardware breaking point (overload), where it can't handle such high volume to work as how it was designed anymore, strangely sometimes that gives more desired result. The ceiling only exist when the signal reach the converter coming back to digital.

 

I thought it's digital realm that gives the headroom above 0dBFS. 32 bit floating point gives you over 100 dB of headroom. Your DA converter will clip sooner than your DAW.
In case of DAWless (what an abhorrent term FFS) you'll still have to clip it either through AD or through vinyl, you hipster.
And analog is either about driving it hot and crunchy or inversely avoiding distortion with proper gain staging.

 

you don't, because it's impossible to monitor signal at that level, it's just in the middle of the processing chain, gain staging at the end will bring down to listenable volume to hit the summing mixer at proper input. you just want to hear the result at proper volume. not sure how to explain though because I don't really care about the math behind it.

 

The engineer for Yothi Yindi made a pair after trying for 20 years... He was capable electronically of building and creating anything electronic. He stated clearly that as proud as he was that he created them, they sounded like shit. If that's not good enough after being around in music personally for a very long time to know enough people of that calibre, then I have nothing more. 'Perfectly flat' means without one tiny spec of colouration.

 

It is always important to have reliable measurement data which come with a clear statement of "how do I measure".
There are a lot of skilled people out there that can build but have no clue about how to create reliable measurements.

Those tests were performed under strict rules and with a lot of different people participating in them. Not just "I built a speaker and performed whatever measurements and it sounds bad to me". That is indeed not enough at all.

(Perfect in terms of a flat line is not possible. Fluctuations are not avoidable. But something like this is already absolutely amazing in terms of on axis response https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/Dutch Dutch 8C/ErinsAudioCorner/index_eac.html and they have an extremely good reputation from people in all kinds of listening environments)

 

Last edited: Jun 20, 2023

The frequency response is only a small part of the sum. Impulse response, phase response, radiation behavior, natural oscillation, headroom... these are all things that have to be taken into account. And there are definitely loudspeakers that give a very flat frequency response and sound fantastic, because they also do the other things pretty well and balanced.

 

Regarding Dan's music (because that horse hasn't been beaten to total submission yet), I usually find it kinda meh but not offensive, and there are times I'm very pleasantly surprised and impressed.

That being said, am I the only one who feels like sometimes he just composes a short piece to loop just to demonstrate a certain plugin? I mean he always has a problem somewhere in the frequency or dynamic range and oh wow would you believe that the plugin this video is about just happens to have the perfect solution to that.

Which isn't a problem in any way whatsoever. Maybe he purposefully messes with his original music just to fix it for the video. Or maybe he genuinely discovers tons of errors in his older mixes when testing the latest FabFilter BootyEnhancer 3.

 

I am not sure. In terms of a null test, he said he achieved it. If you knew the guy and saw him in action testing electronics you'd believe him too.
I hear the validity of what you are saying. Stranger things that were supposedly impossible have happened. It's not BS as much as it certainly may seem so.

P.S. - He is a very humble, unassuming kind of guy. If you knew him, he never says something that is not what it is and never sought any limelight.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2023

As an uberfan of Lord Worrall, the problem I have w/ his very latest (imo bullshit) "reviews" is that he claims ermagerd bias, and then cherry-picks (mostly irrelevant / factually wrong) things to complain about. To "protect" his employer, Fapfilter. Which is pretty bad, for someone who I considered trustworthy and interesting. I don't really care that much if the interface is green (or w/e) which is a massive downer ("I'm giving it to Fap") for Dan, who says this is a "bad thing", because he cba to rtfm (for once, coincidentally.) I just wish he'd look at things objectively, rather than try to protect his employer from his own critique!

 

Could be me character wise. But I'm probably more arrogant.
However to me evidence is required to make something valid. And so far I'm going pretty good like this.

 

Last edited: Jun 20, 2023

The only issue with evidence these days, is that witnessing anything is almost no longer valid, nor is taking anyone at face value. It was never an issue last century, but this century is a new ballpark. Also, I do not not know you and you do not know me, so you asking for evidence instead of taking the word of someone you do not know is perfectly logical. While I was there when he started it and decades later finished it, to anyone who does not know me, that is just someone on a forum saying as much... being me in this case. I'll just leave it as I witnessed it from inception to end. which in terms of a spec sheet is no evidence at all I guess. With deep-fakes, videos and photos are not even evidence these days either.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2023

Yes Chris knows dsp very well and probably the reason he makes such terrible music (cause he is always on the logical side of the brain), also he does not care about mainstream music he seems to be experimenting without taking proper care of the production aspects of audio. He is fine in my book. Dan is not a dsp coder at all, and his music is not amateur but is lack luster, like he is trying hard very much, without making good acoustic or electronic productions.
Let me add another genius like Chris, this is dsp developer, hardware developer and great sound engineer (good master engineer too prob) and he is the epitome of someone which his music speak louder than his words. Gregory Scott of UBK,sly fy, kush audio.
I was actually very surprised when I listened to his free album from an arrangement, recording, performing, mastering, orchestration standpoint. He does all the things with a bassist and he and his wife singing.
Smooth stuff...
Sneaky Little Devil - In & Out of Time - YouTube
Sneaky Little Devil - Dream by Dream - YouTube

 

Greg is probably the sexiest man ever in the audio world

 

He looks much more healthy and younger than he did a decade or two ago. I wonder what happened. He used to look like the guy next door.